After another bruising defeat increased the pressure on David Wagner, Connor Southwell and Paddy Davitt discussed the Norwich City head coach, Stuart Webber’s impending exit and trouble behind the scenes at Carrow Road.

PD: It was end of the line stuff at Sunderland. It's hard to escape that as a head coach in charge of Norwich City he probably has reached the end of his usefulness, and it's now increasingly about the 'what next', and who's framing that.

Seventeenth in the table as we stand is a long way short of having a group of players under a head coach who are capable of challenging for promotion.

In the manner of it, again, you know the fact that they even went ahead against someone. It wasn't a situation like midweek, Middlesbrough or some of the other games where they're trying to make up ground and you can see the brittleness and the lack of confidence. No, they actually got their noses in front having had to dig in.

In terms of what you want as an away team, they managed to soak up what Sunderland were offering in that first quarter and then scored a very good goal on the counter. Even in that setting where you were 1-0 up, creating one or two chances thereafter, they were not able to even get to half-time ahead.

The second half was everything that is wrong with it in terms of the lack of energy, intensity, lack of ideas, again, this feeling that he's just throwing players into the mix now. I mean they ended up with Adam Idah, Hwang, Nunez, Borja Sainz and Onel Hernandez there on the pitch. You end up with Kenny McLean at centre back and he's involved sadly in the in the match-sealing penalty.

We spoke to David after the game and he looked a beaten man. I've said that after the game immediately just his body language, so downcast. So downbeat. Avoiding eye contact when he was responding to questions. Everything that isn't normally him, he normally is such a positive enthusiastic character. He looked beaten, really.

 So of course he'll plod on until he's told otherwise, but it increasingly feels, with Blackburn at Carrow Road now to come a week today, it's when rather than if.

CS: David Wagner came out after the game and described it as an OK performance. That feels generous to me.

It's similar collapses in different ways, similar performances in similar ways, similar deficiencies in similar ways. Their away form, as we've spoken about, is horrendous.

I think increasingly people are just wondering when somebody at Norwich City is going to wake up and realise what they're in at the moment, because for every day that this goes on and limps on, every day that passes is an acceptance of where they're at, whether that's the intention or not.

Is that credible? Is that a position that can hold at this moment in time, with Norwich City's form as bad as it is at this moment in time?

PD: It's a malaise and it has been for two years now, since Stuart Webber sat in a dressing room at Brentford and dispensed with the services of Daniel Farke. From that point onwards on the pitch, and you have to stay off the pitch, it hasn't been good. The product has been failure.

It's going to be a reset because, by definition, Stuart Webber will depart at some point between now and the end of this year, and Ben Knapper will come in. We know about the situation above with the Americans and increasing their shareholding. So there is change, there is change on the way. We are in a period of change, but it feels like it needs a top to bottom reset.