Whats his name? Its Holt& Graham Holt, apparently. Photo by Paul Chesterton/Focus Images
Norwich City striker Grant Holt in talks over his future
Monday, May 21, 2012
11:55 AM
Grant Holt and his agent have met with Norwich City chief executive David McNally this afternoon in an attempt to “resolve” their differences.
Grant Holt and his agent have met with Norwich City chief executive David McNally this afternoon in an attempt to “resolve” their differences.
Holt’s agent, Lee Payne, told BBC Radio Norfolk on Monday morning that Holt’s shock transfer requested, which was put in on Friday and immediately rejected by the club, was not prompted by a row over wages.
Payne said other issues had arisen “in the past couple of months” which had prompted Holt’s decision, but said the 31-year-old striker, a three-time Player of the Season with City, did not want to leave the club.
It remains unclear just what is behind Holt’s decision, but City fans will be hoping that a resolution can be found to persuade the man who has become a cult hero at Carrow Road to stay.
“In respect to the football club and David McNally we have a meeting at 4pm this afternoon and hopefully we’ll be trying to resolve matters,” said Payne.
“It’s been a difficult few days really. It’s not a decision Grant has made overnight. It’s something that has been ongoing for a little while now.
“He loves the club. He loves the fans. I think the fans love him. He’s had a tremendous three years at the club and he just feels it was a decision that he had no other choice to make at this stage.
“Grant is 31 years old and I’ve been looking after him for nine years. It’s not like I have just jumped on his bandwagon the last 12 months. He is a mature, intelligent young man. He can speak for himself and it’s a decision he felt he had to make, and I’m standing with him 100pc on it because there have been some things that have gone on that we feel are not right.
“That is what we are going to resolve with David McNally.”
Payne was also keen to state Holt wants to remain at Norwich City player – as well as feeling the reaction of some supporters to the City skipper’s transfer request has been unfair.
Holt’s agent added: “Why would he not want to stay? His family is here. He’s had a tremendous time at the club, he is adored by lots of the fans.
“But things have to be done correctly and professionally and Grant just feels over the last couple of months some comments have been made and things have been said which have been very unfair. And if they ever come out in the wash, I’m sure everybody will understand why he did what he did.
“It’s not all about money. Obviously money comes into the scenario – it always does in football and I think players like to feel like they are being valued and being respected. There are a couple of issues Grant is not happy with and I think he feels that needs resolving.
“You never know what’s going on in someone’s heart and in someone’s mind. He is a fantastic professional, he doesn’t make decisions like that (transfer request) on a whim.
“I felt it was only fair to speak up and say something because I’ve heard some comments that people have been making over the weekend and I think it’s very unfair when you are throwing out accusations and speculating on things when you don’t know what’s going on.
“Maybe if some of this comes out in the wash then I think people will understand why he did what he did. But David McNally is a very experienced professional man as well and I would like to think when people come together with a professional mind, there is no reason why we can’t sit down like adults and gentlemen and try to resolve this situation we are in at the moment.”
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85 comments
Hey Benali, that "intellectually challenged sycophant" was in no way aimed at you! It was a sweeping generalisation of the type that I`m ashamed of, generally. It was really a personal view of the culture at "Big" clubs, where grossly remunerated prima donnas with weird haircuts and a predisposition to home pyrotechnics, etc, are rewarded with the blind adulation of a herd-culture. That`s all. :-) PS. Timbo is NOT a dirty player!
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Mad Brewer
Friday, May 25, 2012
No problem Timbo - I realised my views may be a little bit hard to swallow as like you, £16k a week is the stuff of dreams. My point was in relation to other Premier league players rather than the man on the Norwich omnibus! Felt the tackle was a bit of a sandwich between you and Mad Brewer's "intellectually challenged sycophant" comment but with counselling, I'll recover
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Canary on the moon
Friday, May 25, 2012
Payne has a chocolate Brazil nut plantation near Natal in Brazil. Sounds like a good place to be born again.
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Mad Brewer
Wednesday, May 23, 2012
Was richard1`s post originally triplicated? Agree with your £16K sentiments, Timbo.
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Mad Brewer
Wednesday, May 23, 2012
I'm confused Richard...is that 3 fivers...15 quid or the same fiver 3 times? Is the bet with Billy the bookie?
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Timbo
Tuesday, May 22, 2012
payne says its unfair to to comment when we dont know the facts.well come clean then.
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bluelight
Tuesday, May 22, 2012
What on earth is the problem? Drogba ia leaving Chelsea on a free transfer!
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blackdog2
Tuesday, May 22, 2012
anyone got a fiver on there being an announcement about a new contract being signed before the game tonight?
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richard1
Tuesday, May 22, 2012
Apologies for the heavy tackle Benali. I'm used to answering 1p5wich Tahhhhn fans on other boards. I sometimes forget that we're all on the same side here. Also I really don't like people on 16 grand a week bleating about being underpaid. Even if they're Holty ! ...
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Timbo
Tuesday, May 22, 2012
Shouldn't that be coffee JGL rather than tea - or perhaps something a little stronger...!
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zebbee
Tuesday, May 22, 2012
Colombian coffee. Brazilian nuts. BTW Tesco`s doing a deal on-line for Payne`s chocolate brazil nuts. I wonder if that`s just a coincidence or is LP a Chocolate Baron as well? There`s an awful lot of coffee in Brazil, too!
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Mad Brewer
Tuesday, May 22, 2012
Shouldn't that be coffee JGL rather than tea - or perhaps something a little stronger...!
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zebbee
Tuesday, May 22, 2012
That`s a portent that Jody Foster will be in goal for England...
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Mad Brewer
Tuesday, May 22, 2012
LOL canarydownunder. Hanibal McNally ate his liver with some fava beans, mmmnn!
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Swiss Canary
Tuesday, May 22, 2012
I'm in Colombia, only just down the road. Maybe I could pop round for a cup of tea sometime ...
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Johnny Gavin Lives
Tuesday, May 22, 2012
Johnny if you're six hours behind UK, then I'm only an hour in front of you. I live in Toronto.
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dazzahuckerbysbarber
Tuesday, May 22, 2012
Spot on dazza, couldn't agree more. But what are you doing up at this time? My excuse is that I live six hours behind most of the rest of you. But may everyone turn out in force and have a great time tomorrow at the Drury benefit. He deserves it.
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Johnny Gavin Lives
Tuesday, May 22, 2012
I think bottom line here is that Norwich's number 9 isn't going anywhere. This is a ploy and to my mind, he has been poorly advised by his agent in bringing this into the public domain. Lambert is not going to comment because at least part of this will pertain to salary and Lambert is an employee just like GH. Also, Lambert will be keeping his cards close to his chest for obvious reasons. He's pretty enigmatic anyway. I hope that Holt gets a good reception tomorrow and that peopl focus on the man of the hour which is Adam Drury. I just hope that by the time the Euros roll around, we have our manager and our number 9 involved in our plans for what will be a difficult second season
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dazzahuckerbysbarber
Tuesday, May 22, 2012
The Silence of the Lambos?
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canarydownunder
Tuesday, May 22, 2012
SO WHAT HAPPENED AT THE MEETING - OR - ARE THEY STILL INSIDE TALKING ?
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Dubai Canary
Monday, May 21, 2012
The seagulls will always follow the trawlers...Holty or Lambo...Discuss
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JMH
Monday, May 21, 2012
Pah! Didn't Rooney try a similar trick last year? A total bluff that resulted in a pay rise and a boot into the gaffer for good measure too?
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Fenscape
Monday, May 21, 2012
WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE TELL US WHAT IS GOING ON ? WHAT WAS THE OUTCOME OF TODAYS MEETING ?
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Dubai Canary
Monday, May 21, 2012
So its not about money just a few issues to be resolved.If thats the case then why didnt Grant Holt and his agent seek a meeting to try and resolve them before asking for a transfer? Now his agent says he doesnt want to leave so why ask for a transfer? Let him go
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norfolkcourier
Monday, May 21, 2012
Read the Evening News article properly - it is all about the behind the scenes problems of the last few months that caused our fall away in form. Grant's agent can't spell it out more clearly. But the club will admit nothing...
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Mel Lacey
Monday, May 21, 2012
It's alright Hey Benali, we've just got a bit of a dander up here and William the Belligerent Turf Accountant is lobbing the odd brick, in order to maintain the zen-like calm.
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Swiss Canary
Monday, May 21, 2012
Blimey, go steady boys - just trying to give a different perspective to an issue that is not a simple one of greed over loyalty.
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Canary on the moon
Monday, May 21, 2012
Hope you get a lift MB. Unfortunately my yellow and green Lada is not going your way.
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Russianality
Monday, May 21, 2012
Russianality, I`m hitching a lift from The Scratby to be at a game on the morrow. A Funny old World.
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Mad Brewer
Monday, May 21, 2012
Flown back from Moscow to enjoy the game tomorrow. Very disappointed that whatever the outcome of today’s meeting, the game and the deserving beneficiary will not be the main topic of conversation tomorrow. Apologies for not continuing and responding to comments about Ukraine – local technical issues! Incidentally there is no definite or indefinite article in the Russian language! And as a final piece of trivia, many parts of Moscow have street fencing and kerb stones painted alternately yellow and green!
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Russianality
Monday, May 21, 2012
I've just got this horrible feeling that Grant wants to leave because he knows that Lambert will, and therefore wants to get out of the ship before it potentially starts sinking... pessimistic I know but if it isn't money and he wants a meeting with McNally then what else could it be? OTBC
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ragniblov
Monday, May 21, 2012
He may not want to leave but if you think about it its best for both GH and NCFC, his stock has and will never be higher, why did the transfer request go public? because they wanted it to, why did mcnally say no contracted players are to leave? because thats an open invite to all clubs saying bid up. GH could get one year on big money, and NCFC can sell whilst value is high. we could buy him back for less than half what we recieved in a year of him sitting on bench elsewhere. I still think Owen on a free would be great, he would score maybe 5 goals but what he could teach the likes of jackson would be so valuable. he wants to play on and he has always taken a pay cut in the past to keep playing.
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MBA Marine
Monday, May 21, 2012
Emperor`s clothes. I`m altogether fed up with "poor" footballers and their intellectually challenged sycophants. However highly paid they brag as being. Life is rented to you. Not given. God was Jewish first!
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Mad Brewer
Monday, May 21, 2012
Hey Benali- please refer to your own previous posting. You said Holty has "2 or 3 years to set himself up for life". Sounds like you're suggesting he HAS to do it to me ! Why should he be given that chance that ordinary fans on average wages aren't?
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Timbo
Monday, May 21, 2012
You beat me to it Timbo. Grant has been surprised by the reaction of the supporters?? Why? If you are seen as the heart and soul of the club and assumed by the supporters to be loyal then of course they are going to see it as a betrayal when you hand in a transfer request. As for it being stirred up by the Sun, Although the Sun may over exaggerate the facts, they didn't exaggerate the fact that he handed in a transfer request. Whatever the reason, I am sure he has done it to bring things to a head and get this meeting with McNally. I personally hope he satys as he has given us some fantastic moments. It isn't just about his technical ability, he has been a fantastic captain and really galvanises the team.
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Preston Canary
Monday, May 21, 2012
It's not a question of "having" to be able to set themselves up for life but how many of us wouldn't take the chance if we could.
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Canary on the moon
Monday, May 21, 2012
I do hope you're referring to yourself there Billy ? PS: Take Ged with you, will you..? Ta !
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Timbo
Monday, May 21, 2012
Going,GOING,GONE !!
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billythebookie2000@yahoo.co.uk
Monday, May 21, 2012
“It’s not all about money. Obviously money comes into the scenario " DM .How much? GH.About £xk a week DM.Sorted. (LP counts his commission). Problem solved
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Peter Watson
Monday, May 21, 2012
Shame Mr. Payne has joined the Proddys Swiss. Now if he'd been a left-footer like me, I could've had a spiritual word with him..."Bless him"....In the immortal words of Fr. Ted " There's no question in Catholicism that can't be answered either 'Yes' or 'That would be an eccumenical matter'"...!
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Timbo
Monday, May 21, 2012
Wikipedia has this information about Grant's agent,"Lee has recently become a born again Christian and currently lives in Brazil" Not your regular bloke in the pub on a Friday night.
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Swiss Canary
Monday, May 21, 2012
Does the fact that the crisis talks are being held with McNasty suggest that the problems are with Lambo-Culverhouse? Also I'm amused @ this notion that footballers have to be able to "set -themselves- up- for- life" ??? Do we mean by that, they should never have to work again after their early 30's ? I'm 52 + I've still got 14 years to toil. Oh how my heart bleeds ....
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Timbo
Monday, May 21, 2012
Yes I agree canarydownunder, wrong method, wrong timing
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Michael D
Monday, May 21, 2012
Overall, if it is to do with footballing issues, when he is picked to start, when he is substituted etc. then this can't be negociated with McNally, otherwise Lambo would be wise to leave, so it can only be about contractual issues, pay and conditions. Mr Payne and everone else seems to be ruling out money so it must be something else and it is hard to see how a non-footballing, non-cash issue could be that significant that he felt that he had to spit his dummy. Oh well, roll on 4:00 pm and let's hope that everyone kisses and makes up.
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Swiss Canary
Monday, May 21, 2012
But, if he's been peed off by not getting selected, why is he meeting with McN - unless he knows PL is going.......
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zebbee
Monday, May 21, 2012
Yes I agree canarydownunder, wrong method, wrong timing
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Michael D
Monday, May 21, 2012
Notwithstanding whether Holt has a legitimate gripe or not, the timing of his request leaves a sour taste in the mouth.
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canarydownunder
Monday, May 21, 2012
In Dhaka at the moment, technical challenges both ends. Whatever the ins and outs of PL, Zak and Holty, since the moment PL refused to commit himself for next season it has been a PR disaster for City. On that score, I hope McNally draws some lessons; it appears that is not just communication with supporters that is poor at the club at the moment. After such a magnificent season, this has been a very sad week... Let's hope Drury's testimonial is a better news event!
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Michael D
Monday, May 21, 2012
If "..there are a couple of issues Grant is not happy with and I think he feels that needs resolving..." (GH's agent's quote), then why hasn't there been an attempt to resolve those issues BEFORE asking for a transfer? Hmmm, sounds odd, but the ultimate decision is down to GH himself and although he's been a star player for the Canaries, there's always somebody else waiting in the wings. It remains to be seen if both GH and PL are both at Norwich next season!
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Boadicea 1959
Monday, May 21, 2012
Of course I`ve read the article, Trevor Sadd! That does not mean I believe what I`ve read-not just yet. If there IS a falling out between the manager and his captain, it`s a serious problem. We`ll just have to wait and see what we`re told then take individual views on whether or not we believe it! NCFC is 104 years young......
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Mad Brewer
Monday, May 21, 2012
Have you read the article?It says its not about the money and he WANTS to stay.It seems something has been said that must have been pretty damaging to Holt for him to react in such a extreme way.If it was PLIC or a player then would there be a lasting animosity.I fear that whatever the outcome we will never know the truth and it will for ever be subject to gossip and rumour.
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Trevor Sadd
Monday, May 21, 2012
Yeee-hah! Eureka!! Only a small bit of what I wanted to contribute but, hey, I`m so grateful to be allowed just a little squeak! OTBC.
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Mad Brewer
Monday, May 21, 2012
Thanks, bluelight. Pondy, Holty`s Liverpool match comment is telling. Been trying to continue discussion with Michael D without success. In summary, MD, I think we are agreed that Zak is the better player. The injury pattern is quite different; Zak has had lots of allsorts, Wardy had a single bad one pre-season and none since. Isn`t Russell Martin a revelation at CB, though? OTBC.
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Mad Brewer
Monday, May 21, 2012
From a previous article - “I always think about the one at Anfield when I came on and scored. It wasn’t even about the goal. I was peed off because he didn’t play me and after the weeks I’d had I thought he should have played me.”
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Pondlife
Monday, May 21, 2012
well done m b for putting salaries into perspective.but does anyone outside the club know what any of our players get?for all we know he may allready be getting a bumper pay check.
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bluelight
Monday, May 21, 2012
MB, I feel Zak was treated harshly and I don't understand why. If he's regarded as injury prone, then why is Ward still there - I think Zak played in 21 games last season, Ward 13.
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Michael D
Monday, May 21, 2012
I wonder what you mean by a "relationship" Michael D? It could be that Zak was trying to "learn" injury immunity from the Great Man? I really rate ZW as a player. Class Act. Yes, Pondy, it was a great shame about Malky & Iwan. I still think they would have added a lot to the squad whether just as players or by the very force of their presence, their backbone. Worst thing Worthington did, and it cost him and the Club dearly.
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Mad Brewer
Monday, May 21, 2012
Have been double ethered too. Have been trying to say we still haven't heard the back story of why Whitbread is leaving too, and since Holt's transfer request was soon after, I keep wondering if there is a relationship - especially if Holt's agent is saying this is not just about the money
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Michael D
Monday, May 21, 2012
Reading between the lines, this story should have been dealt with within the walls of Carrow Road. ithas all been stirred up by the "Sun", maybe you should all boycott it like they did on Merseyside following Hillsborough. I never touch the rag, I use Andrex instead.
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Paul Kersey
Monday, May 21, 2012
C-C-G, that`s what I tried to say to ET also! Football Agents should be made to wear Orange uniforms, by way of a Health Warning. I do feel for a footy player who can only amass a paltry £40million in a career span. It`s alright for the Elite on their £250K a week. They might get a decent haul of about £160 million. (plus Image Rights etc). OTBC.
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Mad Brewer
Monday, May 21, 2012
MB, I'm not saying it's fair but we have to inhabit the real world. Football supporters are a fickle bunch and if Holt hadn't cut it with us he'd have been shipped off to Port Vale or Quickfit without too many tears from us "loyal" Norwich supporters. I'm not suggesting we pay £65k, but in Premier league terms he's underpaid - and I would suggest he'll be the first of a few more if we don't get our act together quickly. In fact, forget the ground improvements for now and make sure Holt, Ruddy, Pilkington, Wes, Howson, Bennet(s) to name a handful, plus more importantly Lambo, are paid what they are worth to NCFC rather than what their current contracts say. OTBC
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Canary on the moon
Monday, May 21, 2012
Careful about over using the loyalty card. Whitbread and Wilbrahim have been loyal, but in the harsh world of prof football it did not get them far. Ask Ewan and Malky. The new regs on finances will put paid to the Heskey type deals. Hope Holt stays but the club has survived for 104 years so will probably do so for a bit longer even without him
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Pondlife
Monday, May 21, 2012
I bought a green away shirt with Holt 9 on the back at Xmas. It's as desirable as a investment property in Athens or a savings account in Madrid. I should have bought Ryanair shares instead.
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B Inners
Monday, May 21, 2012
Assuming that the players and management read this as well as the fans I think the message is clear. We want this matter sorted out quickly and equitably. The club has a huge season ahead, and we need everyone pulling together. We would like to see these columns full of exciting news about new signings not internal disputes and unrest. Lets get this cleared up so everyone can enjoy Adam Drury's testimonial game without a big monkey on our backs ! OTBC
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Dubai Canary
Monday, May 21, 2012
Well said E.T. - LOYALTY is a huge word. Greedy Agents can rock the boat, let's hope not in this case. OTBC!! x
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CANARY-CRUISE-GIRL
Monday, May 21, 2012
Setting up for life? £65k a week for,say, 12 years is over £40 MILLION! Come on, you average wage-earners, 45 years at £26,000 a YEAR is about £1.2 million in a working lifetime. £26k is a guess.
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Mad Brewer
Monday, May 21, 2012
I met a Villa supporting pal of mine before the last home game and he told me that Emile Hesky was rumoured to be on £65k a week. clearly a waste of money, but we need to get players salaries in perspective. With 2 or 3 years left for Holt to set himself and his family up for life, I don't blame him if he's concentrating on the money.
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Canary on the moon
Monday, May 21, 2012
Sorry about that. Anyway I reckon he'll stay with an improved package.
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Lobbo
Monday, May 21, 2012
Let’s all hope whatever these differences are get sorted. If it is not over wages, I cannot see Grant’s problem, and I along with thousands of others would love to know. He is a cult hero, a legend in his own time, the heart and soul of the club, and lives very well in the best place in England. To rock the boat now, as Norwich start to look at their most exciting and probably most difficult season to come, is huge. I don’t know if you read these things Grant, but beware, history is very much against bettering yourself. I go back a ways, and there is many a local hero, who has thought a better place existed, and they were a lot younger. Alan Brazil, down the road, and Nigel Clough immediately spring to mind. Think long and hard Grant. Loyalty seems almost a cheap word these days. NCFC gave you a chance…now give them one.
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Erpingham Tractor
Monday, May 21, 2012
The problem for Norwich is that he really is not worth much. We might get 3m and all that and more will be spent replacing him. It is all down to how much HE can get a week and that's it. Oh! and maybe a little signing on fee if he moved.
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Lobbo
Monday, May 21, 2012
So very true, blister. Aren`t we all silly billies really? Living a dream through the exploits of professional footy players. "Adults" thronging the streets in overfilled Replica shirts bearing the names of their current heroes and villains and carrying inflatable canaries about, whilst wearing cardboard Holty masks. Surreal, really.
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Mad Brewer
Monday, May 21, 2012
If I as McN my first question would be " What do you really want Grant?". Money must come into the equation somewhere. If he goes to a big club like Newcastle or Arsenal, he'll be a bench warmer ( albeit a bench warmer on more money). If he's after a guaranteed start place eg: like that Danish bloke we had in the last Prem campaign, who I can't even be bothered to Google, then let him go immediately, cos no-one is bigger than the club.
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Timbo
Monday, May 21, 2012
I still want to know what's the back story about Zak being let go. I still think there might be a link with Holt's transfer request, which happened almost immediately after. It didn't make sense Whitbread being released, and whatever the causes are I sense there's a relationship.Of course, with the scraps of information we are fed, we will probably never know.
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Michael D
Monday, May 21, 2012
not really a lot of difference between the greedy bankers and footballers, fans make them into demi gods when really they often have little loyalty to the city they play for are more interested in the car they drive, the girl on their arm or the amount of money they can get
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blister
Monday, May 21, 2012
Morning all, at last some info, i think? As someone has said before, there are 2 sides to every story! Prehaps Grant has some genuine gripes, who knows? Lets hope Mr Mc can sort this one out, sometimes when agents are involved its Mission Impossible. Lets hope this one is a cruise.
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spanishcanary
Monday, May 21, 2012
Sherbert, Ref Agents: I wonder if Holty`s impressively trim torso is testament to the number of Payneful pounds of flesh he`s lost already! A topic close to his heart, perhaps?
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Mad Brewer
Monday, May 21, 2012
The ethering system`s set on Top setting already. Why?
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Mad Brewer
Monday, May 21, 2012
"Other issues had arisen over the past couple of months?" Holty is clearly upset that Moro has been getting more abuse from the fans than he has so a transfer request quickly resolves that little issue!
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GMF
Monday, May 21, 2012
Newmarket, you can`t help but ponder. There have been occasions when Holty has seemed a tad tetchy. He`s one of those guys who clearly feels it a personal affront to be left out. Specially early in the Season when Morison seemed to be preferred. He had issues in his days at Forest, when he was often a sub or played out of position on the wing.(!) All will be revealed. Well, something will be announced anyway, eventually. Certainly, the Agent will be a winner. Perhaps Holty`s impressively trim torso is testament to how many Payneful Pounds of Flesh Holty has lost already!
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Mad Brewer
Monday, May 21, 2012
There's always an agent behind a player's unrest trying to make a quick buck.
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Sherbert
Monday, May 21, 2012
Do supporters recall a recent home game when Holt swore at the bench? He was substituted soon afterwards. Is there tension between him and Lambert and more likely between him and Culverhouse?
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Newmarket Canary
Monday, May 21, 2012
Can only be about money,no doubt agent trying to cash in on Holt's success by trying to renegotiate his contract so he can get a slice of Norwiche's Premiership status.
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Sherbert
Monday, May 21, 2012
So he`s meeting McNally in order that the "two" can resolve their differences. Where does Lambo come into this? Or does "parties" imply more than 2, collectively? If the problem has nothing to do with money (Like it, I "do" surreal!) then what else might it be? Too much bench - warming? Sub appearances sometimes timed so as to be futile? Being left out altogether in 2 Prem, 1 FA Cup and 1 League Cup matches? (Both Cup matches resulting in demoralising defeats). I hope some good news comes out of this. Or any news......
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Mad Brewer
Monday, May 21, 2012
Oh Dear. What is the point of a contract? Let Holt go, and try and maximise the fee. If he is not committted to the club, as would appaer to be the case - Thank you and goodbye! Let us hope it does not effect the excellent Adam Dury - please note this is real loyalty Holt, testimonial.
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canaryseagull
Monday, May 21, 2012
There had to be an agent (called Pain) involved, didn't there ? Anyway, lets not be judgemental until after todays meeting. If Lee Payne does a good job for Grant Holt, maybe I'll employ him to negotiate me a new deal with my corporate friends in the US. I have been a star performer and head of a highly achieving profit center for 12 years, but, I haven't managed to get myself up to 16K a week yet !
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Dubai Canary
Monday, May 21, 2012