UPDATE: Holt traders hit back at ‘verbal abuse’ allegations as summer markets are scrapped

76 comments

• Regarding the parking in Holt, maybe if some of the traders that are here didn't leave vehicles parked up all day in the town then maybe space would be freed up for a few more visitors.

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  It's_all_a_conspiracy

  Thursday, June 28, 2012

• Regarding the parking in Holt, maybe if some of the traders that are here didn't leave vehicles parked up all day in the town then maybe space would be freed up for a few more visitors.

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  It's_all_a_conspiracy

  Thursday, June 28, 2012

• It's quite interesting to read how people are saying 'get a backbone mayor' , commenting on the lack of leadership and sniping at the 'self appointed chairman'. These are the same people who are saying that the comments are all in good humour and denying any backbiting. I think you'll find that the mayor position (and it is mayor not head of the town council now) is not self appointed but is in fact voted in, seconded and accepted. I'm sure that when something good is done in the town, everyone is happy with the work that is being done by the council. It's a shame that when there is something that is disagreed upon, it gets nasty.

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  Wacky

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• It's quite interesting to read how people are saying 'get a backbone mayor' , commenting on the lack of leadership and sniping at the 'self appointed chairman'. These are the same people who are saying that the comments are all in good humour and denying any backbiting. I think you'll find that the mayor position (and it is mayor not head of the town council now) is not self appointed but is in fact voted in, seconded and accepted. I'm sure that when something good is done in the town, everyone is happy with the work that is being done by the council. It's a shame that when there is something that is disagreed upon, it gets nasty.

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  Wacky

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• Both sides need to build bridges again so it's a good starting point Mr B.

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  omnishambles

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• Then let's get this damn Car Park sorted. I don't care where it is as long as it is not in another ten years time.

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  Locallad

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• Mr B - I don't have a trade in Holt- But the idea of town council working with the holt traders is a good one. I trust you, newsflash and the other members of Holt town council will make contact will all traders and reach some common ground. The traders in Holt have one loud voice and what a peaceful force it is when they use it. The art of any good town council is to listen first then act. Don't be fooled but glossy plans and colourful reports , use the power you have been given wisely and for the good of all of Holt.

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  lolafish

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• lolafish the one thing Holt town council has been for the last 9 years is very proactive regarding the car parking i am sure no one wants to see a car park more than them. unfortunately the solution is beyond their control unless everyone in the town pulls together and get the existing problem between the current landowner and the county council sorted or find a long term viable alternative elsewhere a senior county councillor (not our representative) said we would have one before Christmas but i seriously doubt it. its the biggest hold up to serious development economically of the town and i for one am not going to give in on it perhaps a meeting with all traders, councillors would be a good idea to discuss this subject further it wouldn't be such a bad idea as this effects your trade way more than any market ever would have.

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  MrB

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• tufty: the precept increased because expenses increased the same as everyone else's have and the council needs also i believe to retain a small reserve for emergency purposes. also i believe they have to budget for an extension to the cemetery in the not to distant future i would suggest you visit Di Dann in the council offices look at the accounts and point out anything you consider waste to them i believe they are freely available.

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  MrB

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• JP-if the council interested in supporting the entire town then why the following questions. 1- Why no full consultation with shop keepers, business people and town folk re: marketparking? Especially those folk who live onnear star plain and fish hill 2- Why no consultation with committee members from Holt festival regarding parking on Gresham school during the festival weeks? 3- Why price the market stalls way lower than NNDC pricing bands? 4- Why did they consult with Fakenham market traders before Holt? 5- Why did they plan the positions of the market stalls the way they did. Nothing like the plan in the Vision report? 6- They have said nothing about other free parking losses around Holt? 7- If another car park is badly required. Why are they not being proactive about this need? If you are a town council member are you in a position to give the facts rather than waffle?

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  lolafish

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• Lolafish: You criticise the town council for not doing enough for the town, while shooting them down for trying new ideas!

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  JP

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• Tufty, indeed the Chamber of Commerce did vote against the market last month. Isn't it a pity if they had such strong views they didn't raise it in their discussions about the vision between Jan and June? Same applies to Cllr. Baker. Of course with a presence of traders it's no wonder they started u-turning. Just a pity traders do not attend regularly. Lolafish - Aylsham car park might be free all day, all year, but Sheringham is not and takes far greater than 8 spaces away. In a busy tourist town are they not vital too and does your argument not compare?

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  omnishambles

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• Aylsham car parks are free all day and all year round. Markets at Sheringham and Aylsham are not placed directly in front of shop windows, doorways etc. The illustration used in the NNN and EPD is not a true representative how the proposed Holt market would have looked. We can debate as long as you like on markets, consultation, and closed, open meetings etc. but it about Holt, the people who live there, shop keepers, business people, people employed and a car park!. Mr B you have a passion for Holt- why not use it to promote unity between to council and the local business to ensure Holt remains as popular to residents and visitors alike. I am not a Holt business person. Hopfully this comment will only be posted the once.

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  lolafish

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• Aylsham car parks are free all day and all year round. Markets at Sheringham and Aylsham are not placed directly in front of shop windows, doorways etc. The illustration used in the NNN and EPD is not a true representative how the proposed Holt market would have looked. We can debate as long as you like on markets, consultation, and closed, open meetings etc. but it about Holt, the people who live there, shop keepers, business people, people employed and a car park!. Mr B you have a passion for Holt- why not use it to promote unity between to council and the local business to ensure Holt remains as popular to residents and visitors alike. I am not a Holt business person. Hopfully this comment will only be posted the once.

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  lolafish

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• MrB- Not all changes are a good thing. There is a great little saying “The more things changes the more they stay the same” The town council appeared to have forgotten to consult with the local business people and residents, not just with a few and visitors. Let’s not start with date and times again. We both know a proper consultation was not held regarding a weekly market. What Holt needs first and foremost is a car park, as promoted in Holt Vision report, page 14. Not a temporary one for 8 weeks. The town council used the market to promote a temporary car park, one that was available when pervious Holt Festivals were held. So the conclusion, the temporary car park has been available this time of year, as in the past, the difference this year, a charge will be made, apart from Fridays when up to an hour parking free. You know as well as I do local businesses are struggling in Holt, especially in the winter months. If the current town council are keen to do something proper then surely it’s about supporting and ensuring publicity for current shops and services in Holt not promoting bad feelings and splits between each other. I am pleased to note you do not agree with the derogatory comment made by one of the councillors aimed at a member of the public. But, all of us within the public sector either employed or elected have a code of conduct to uphold. If you are a member of the council or other council members who were present I trust this incident has been properly reported to the monitoring officer at NNDC.

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  lolafish

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• Seems to me there's been more debate on this issue in just two days through this EDP webpage than there's been around the Holt Town Council table in 12 months! Well done EDP for providing the forum. The Mayor claims that the traders have "failed to see the bigger picture", but I think this online debate clearly reveals a hidden agenda.

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  Acle Straight

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• Newsflash - Don't worry, I would never consider joining Holt Town Council with its current lack of leadership! Might I suggest that you go onto the Holt Chamber of Trade's website and read the Minutes of their last meeting held on 6th June. There you will see that the Chamber Committee voted unanimously against a market being held in Holt for July and August. This information should have been conveyed to Town Councillors at their meeting on 11th June by the Clerk (who had attended the Chamber meeting in the absence of the appointed Holt Town Councillor). The Minutes of the Town Council meeting on 11th June can be read from the Holt Chronicle's webpage, but no reference in the report shows that the Clerk conveyed this crucial information from the Chamber. I wonder why? MrB - the retention of the public conveniences on Church Street was a costly exercise with a commitment to long-term expenditure to keep them open. Was it worth it? The support of the CAB has been a Town Council priority ever since it opened in Holt, but it's backing never affected a rise in the precept. The support for organisations throughout the town is historical through the awarding of grant aid, but their backing never affected a rise in the precept either. There simply is no arguement for the precept to rise so dramatically.

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  Tufty

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• Lolafish as you are aware as you were obviously present like myself the comment was not made during the council meeting but during public question time when effectively the council meeting itself is closed so isn't covered by the standards codes etc..this does not mean i agree in any shape or form with the comment made which i also found offensive. the idea of the market was to get extra footfall into the town not harm the existing traders if you look at sheringham aylsham etc. they are trying to keep their markets so there must be some benefit to having one there was considerable publicity regarding the vision perhaps more businesses in the town should be a members of the chamber of trade which is there for your benefit and has direct input into the council then this situation would possibly have not arose. The market was to be reviewed after 4 weeks (4 days of markets) and closed if unsuccessful we were told that at the last meeting which you know is correct if you were there. as far as the car park is concerned the only way to get one is for the traders and the town council to work together to secure one i personally don't care who provides it i want one NOW not in another 9 years time otherwise the traders of Holt wont have any trade whatsoever Tufty i suppose the retention of the public toilets on church street wasn't something you wanted nor the supporting of the CAB and other organisations in the town which without the councils support would struggle even more than they do now the idea of the Holt vision was to give some long term plan for the town which could be enacted rather than what has gone in the past where we are seemed to be ignored by county and district councils no matter who represented us.

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  MrB

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• So Tufty. You have a grudge against the council but you won't stand yourself as a councillor. Therefore you will continue to complain it's undemocratic because no one is prepared to contest. Your real issue falls with the Vision board which has driven this market. Who sits on it? Holt Town Council, Holt Area Partnership, Holt Chamber of Trade, Holt Youth Project, Holt Society, Gresham's School, North Norfolk District Council, and Norfolk County Council. Is that really unrepresentative? Is that really undemocratic? ALL of these bodies could have objected? How many did? Not one.

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  omnishambles

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• MrB- Not all changes are a good thing. There is a great little saying “The more things changes the more they stay the same” The town council appeared to have forgotten to consult with the local business people and residents, not just with a few and visitors. Let’s not start with date and times again. We both know a proper consultation was not held regarding a weekly market. What Holt needs first and foremost is a car park, as promoted in Holt Vision report, page 14. Not a temporary one for 8 weeks. The town council used the market to promote a temporary car park, one that was available when pervious Holt Festivals were held. So the conclusion, the temporary car park has been available this time of year, as in the past, the difference this year, a charge will be made, apart from Fridays when up to an hour parking free. You know as well as I do local businesses are struggling in Holt, especially in the winter months. If the current town council are keen to do something proper then surely it’s about supporting and ensuring publicity for current shops and services in Holt not promoting bad feelings and splits between each other. I am pleased to note you do not agree with the derogatory comment made by one of the councillors aimed at a member of the public. But, all of us within the public sector either employed or elected have a code of conduct to uphold. If you are a member of the council or other council members who were present I trust this incident has been properly reported to the monitoring officer at NNDC.

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  lolafish

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• MrB- Not all changes are a good thing. There is a great little saying “The more things changes the more they stay the same” The town council appeared to have forgotten to consult with the local business people and residents, not just with a few and visitors. Let’s not start with date and times again. We both know a proper consultation was not held regarding a weekly market. What Holt needs first and foremost is a car park, as promoted in Holt Vision report, page 14. Not a temporary one for 8 weeks. The town council used the market to promote a temporary car park, one that was available when pervious Holt Festivals were held. So the conclusion, the temporary car park has been available this time of year, as in the past, the difference this year, a charge will be made, apart from Fridays when up to an hour parking free. You know as well as I do local businesses are struggling in Holt, especially in the winter months. If the current town council are keen to do something proper then surely it’s about supporting and ensuring publicity for current shops and services in Holt not promoting bad feelings and splits between each other. I am pleased to note you do not agree with the derogatory comment made by one of the councillors aimed at a member of the public. But, all of us within the public sector either employed or elected have a code of conduct to uphold. If you are a member of the council or other council members who were present I trust this incident has been properly reported to the monitoring officer at NNDC.

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  lolafish

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• Newsflash - You claim I'm misleading? Afraid your sums just don't add up! The Vision cost £30,000 with £5,000 coming from Holt Town Council (ie. the rate-payers of Holt). The remaining £25,000 came from NNDC as I previously stated. MrB - where are all these wonderful additional (and very costly) facilities in Holt that you refer to? It's a shame that we now have such a wreckless Town Council when every Council throughout the UK is being encouraged to be careful and introduce budget restraints and cost-cutting measures. But then again, perhaps its the Town Council that considers everybody living in Holt to be so wealthy that we won't notice. What a shame MrB that you are not a councillor, for then you could have ruled the offensive remark made towards a member of the public out of order and demanded an apology. However we've all got so used to the weak leadership and lack of drive by our town council that a code of conduct just doesn't matter anymore. Locallad - the traders in Holt can't plan for anything, nor increase footfall for, as you rightly point out, there's nowhere to park.

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  Tufty

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• Sorry Tufty I missed out a warning of approaching IRONY - I didn't reall mean it would help.

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  sensibletrousers

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• Lolafish - Unlike in Sheringham, all of Holt's jubilee plans went to plan and displayed the carnival spirit of years gone by. They may not have the carnival but is that the council's fault? This comes down to the changing demographics of the town (and those who do not want new ideaschange...!)

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  omnishambles

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• i was at the last town council meeting and i did not agree with the derogatory comment made by one of the councillors aimed at a member of the public i am certain it was his personal opinion and definitely not the opinion of the council member's the comment was made in public question time not during the council meeting and should have been retracted.. I live on the wrong side of the bypass as you put it and am proud to do so.. As for the carnivals they were mostly to my knowledge organised by the Holt Carnival Committee which was made up from mostly those people from the wrong side of the bypass not from the town council although i know some may have been involved in it. the carnival died due to lack of support from everyone in the town as there were virtually no floats or sponsorship from the town and one or two people had to run all the events. the last one we had was literally organised by one person with the help of a lot of the members of the sports and social club. i don't know much about the Anglia in bloom competition but i presume the traders of the town were heavily involved with it. we still have a community spirit in the town which needs channelling to get what the town wants and needs for to long we have been ignored by the powers that be and you can say what you like about the current town council but at least they are trying to change things which is more than what has been achieved in the past.

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  MrB

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• TBD, 96% of people in West Norfolk voted against an incinerator which will be forced on them so maybe our elected representatives at all levels need reminding what democracy actually means.

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  smithrob

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• MrB- I do not know your involvement history with the lovely town of Holt? However I do remember the previous town councillor’s hard work in promoting the town’s best interest. For example they took Holt to runner-up in the Britain in Bloom after many successful years with Anglia in Bloom, carnivals, real community spirit and the ability to bring all the community together, yes including residents living the wrong side of the bypass! I am not aware if the current town council can be bothered to fill in the entry forms for Anglia in Bloom! As for the comments of harangued and abuse. I take it you were not present at a recent meeting when a member of the town council used the words ignorant and illiterate towards a member of the general public?

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  lolafish

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• It's amazing that in the town people realise that the traders are having a hard time. The main reason for this is the ever lasting saga over additional car parking being needed. When something comes forward in an attempt to help the traders they have fought against it in fear. For goodness sake this was not a massive all year round market away from the town centre but a trial in the heart of the town to try to help the very traders who have now stopped it. I hope the traders have an alternative plan to increase footfall into the town to prevent their trade getting even worse.

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  Locallad

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• Tufty, you are misleading. £20,000 came from NNDC but the money was initially awarded from the Department for Communities and Local Government for having a localism agenda.

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  omnishambles

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• Tufty - its very sad that the town council has had to raise the precept by so much to try to catch up with the facilities on offer compared to other local towns, and even villages. such a shame that previous councils have ignored the needs of the town for so long forcing the increases. we all know in the town that both the district and county councils have ignored holt because past councils have allowed them to so due to some misguided idea that everyone in holt is wealthy, leaving the people of holt and the town missing out on all the facilities provided elsewhere in the district and county perhaps if the town traders put as much effort into trying to secure long term car parking for the town as they have to stop a market which was trying to help them we would have a car park by now

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  MrB

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• Mr B - The unity that once existed within the town of Holt, encapsulating every sector, has all been lost in recent years. Can you recall such bad feeling existing in Holt at any other time? Holt Town Council paid £5,000 towards the Vision Project and the remainder came from NNDC. Holt Town Council's precept has increased by nearly 50% in the last 5 years (£52,000 to £73,208). What an appalling record this current Town Council has, and when they have their backs against the wall they chose to fight dirty.

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  Tufty

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• again this shows that the biggest fault here is the chamber of commerce and trade. shopkeepers are adament they were not consulted, but the body that is intended to represent them was! they joined the vision committee from the start, and it took them until june to object. if shopkeepers were on the chamber of commerce and trade they would have had input from the start. instead traders are bemoaning that no-one came to them! shouldn't the chamber of commerce and trade be at the forefront of this article? Or are they, like councillor michael baker, squirming about their flip flopping?

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  617321

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• Holt "Traditional Market Town" Perhaps the traders in question have forgotten where they actually are?

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  Jonny Boggis

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• its funny how some councillors who achieved minimally during their time come out of the woodwork to snipe at the current council. the £30,000 you refer to came from central government not local taxation. the idea of the market was to attract more people into the town not damage existing trade the offer of 50 spaces free for one hour at Greshams would have negated the lose of the 8 spaces on fish hill. it was only set to do an initial 4 day trial over 4 weeks and if unsuccessful would have been dropped then the traders were made aware of this at the last council meeting. Remember the councillors don't do it for a power kick they don't do it for personal glory and they definitely don't do it for money that's a fact. they do it because they care about their community and want to see Holt become an economic power house in the region and offer employment to our children. and they really don't deserve to be harangued or abused at all as for the car parking spaces i hope some of those traders who were bemoaning their potentail lose of trade one day a week should consider that when they park in the town all day taking up valuable spaces from their potential customers you know who you are ! and on another note if you want more car parking in the town you need to support the council as you wont get it without doing so.

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  MrB

  Wednesday, June 27, 2012

• If councillors and officers have been subjected to verbal abuse and threats, Have the Town Council informed the police?

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  Hugh

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• I am not a Holt person, although some of the ancestors lived on Obelisk Plain. My tuppence worth is that surely tourists don't usually check to see if there is a market before booking their holidays and if they do visit Holt their money is better spent in the shops that serve holt all year round. If a come rain or shine all year round market was being proposed, then fair enough if the council had the wit to invite traders whose stalls would complement but not compete with the shops. The big question is who prepared this vision and how valid are the claims. Is it some bit of fancifulness prepared by an employee of a company specialising in such "visions"? A barely adult who has heard that people like markets but doesn't realise they like their reliable butcher-baker-greengrocer rather more than they like fripperies like ferret cheese, nettle soap and dock dyed headscarves? Is it a lot of unsubstantiated ideas along the line of stuff trotted out by Mary who talks out of her Portas?

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  Daisy Roots

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• Getting back to basics could it just be that NCC realised that there was a great deal of opposition to this proposal and decided to suspend any work on the traffic control order necessary to allow the proposed market to proceed until it had evidence that this idea had real all round support? Can I suggest that the next time this sort of proposal is made the Town Council calls a public meeting to discuss it first, or maybe that is a bit radical for an unelected group of councillors who seem to do anything to frustrate the normal democratic process. Democracy rules OK!

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  Sage

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• well acle straight i disagree.... a lot of the shopkeepers are prepared to fight to keep their markets in their town in sheringham and aylsham :-)

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  GLC

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• Many of the people who have not voted live on the other side of the Holt bypass and probably do not even know about the 'Holt Vision' - something created by the Town Council - many of whom do not live in the town but have ancestral connections with it. Many of those who live in this area would probably just like to have a comfortable life.

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  TBD

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• They are on the other side of the Holt bypass which is not always considered by the residents of Holt as eing truly Holt

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  TBD

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• Can I please add one more comment - CLR Payne is Chairman of the Council - not Mayor of Holt. Several cities were offerred the possibility of having a Mayor - Holt was not amongst them! So, why do we have a mayor?? Roll on the next local elections!

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  TBD

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• GLC - Holt isn't necessarily 'superior' ... it's successful. Markets in Sheringham, Cromer and Fakenham have done those towns no favours either. Perhaps they should take a leaf out of Holt's book and be proud to 'dew different'.

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  Acle Straight

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• storm in a teacup....... is anyone going to point out why a market should ruin the town of holt but not sheringham, cromer, or aylsham. or do these traders view holt as being superior?

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  GLC

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• so were they all holt residents tbd ?

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  Double Bill

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• 750 out of 3000 is quite a good result!! After all a lot of strikes in the UK have been held when 50%+ have voted for strike action when only 30 % of the potential electorate have voted. Remember also that there are probably a lot of people in Holt who have never heard of the 'Holt Vision' or indeed care about it because they do not or cannot afford to live in the town centre. As a Holt resident (in the town centre) I will only be happy when those taking the decisions actually live in the town and not in one of the outlying villages.

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  TBD

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• TBD & Samphirelover - your commonsense approaches are most welcome in this debate.

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  Acle Straight

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• 750 'no' votes in a town of 3-3,500 is quite significant since there are probably a lot of residents who have never even heard of the 'Holt Vision' since they do not live in the centre of the Parish. What is more important is the number of independent businesses who objected - around 80 out of around 137 not counting banks, building societies and estate agents and that amounts to almost 60% against the proposals.

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  TBD

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• Having spoken to a number of businesses in Holt this afternoon postponement appeared to be the order of the day - not abandonment. The Council are still interested in justifying the £30,000 of our money which was spent in creating a 'vision' for the future of a town which is already fortunate enough in these difficult financial times to appear to be prosperous. Perhaps some of that money should have been spent on the less affluent areas of the town.

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  TBD

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• Instead of even considering markets, Holt Town Council should be pulling out all the stops to solve the ridiculous parking shortage in Holt. It has been dragging on & on for years and Cley Road is now just a serious accident waiting to happen. Cars parked down there for miles - it's usual now for 20+ cars to be parked - another month. What's it going to be like when the holidaymakers arrive?

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  samphirelover

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• "Postponing". TBD could you clarify why you claim this?

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  omnishambles

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• How dare the self appointed Mayor of Holt (Clr Payne) suggest that a campaign of verbal abuse etc should lead to the Town Council postponing the Friday market in Holt. This is democracy working. The independent traders whose business might e threatened did not want the market. Most of the residents did not want it but the Town Council in their wisdom decided they wanted it and where would the traders come from - certainly not from Holt since the Fakenham market was targetted with leaflets 'come to Holt and set up a market stall there'. Democracy can work if the people object the problem in the UK is that most of us just accept what our councils decide. I lived for several years in France and there when the population do not like what is happening they take to the streets. It is time the Brits did the same!

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  TBD

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• Let’s discuss the free car parking-it not free apart from Fridays then for the first hour. But, JP think about it, if £3.00 all day parking is available in the centre of Holt who’s going to use it? My money on those who park in the lay-by down Letheringsett Hill !

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  lolafish

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• JP - What traders on the Holt Chamber of Trade? And you're wrong, the market proposal on Fish Hill could not have gone ahead without the car parking at Gresham's School being in place (It was a requirement for the Traffic Regulation Order. And don't worry, I would never consider joining Holt Town Council with its current lack of leadership! Sensibletrousers - next Town Council proposal will be to demolish the Church Street toilet block so they can run a car boot sale there every Friday. Thanks!

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  Tufty

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• Is it democracy, Mr Hill? 750 people out of a town of 3,000. There is still a large majority yet to conclusively disagree!

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  JP

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• The lack of town council discussion is presumably, tufty, because the town council set up a vision group with the traders on chamber of trade, and district councillors and various other bodies to discuss proposals outside the town council. Traders should thank the council for listening to their views instead of bickering. They didn't have to give free car parking to replace the lost car parked on Fish Hill but did so after their comments last month. Now they have stopped the whole thing when they could have persued. Is tufty going to put his money where his mouth is and join the council? Or continue to criticise from the sidelines?

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  JP

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• Let's just take a step back,calm down dear a think. A few passing traders setting up and offering wares which to be honest may look attractive in the street scene do absolutely nothing for the long term survival of any town.Early 'retired' and part time traders unloading the back of an old Volvo estate and with an e-bay account, taking cash (let's talk about tax avoidence) it's just a car boot sale - well that should help!

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  sensibletrousers

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• AE - Councillors (at every level) are elected to serve the best interests of their community. If they fail to listen to the actual community that they are representing they will never know whether what they are deciding is right or wrong ... just as in this particular case. Holt Town Council failed to listen to the traders concerns at their last meeting which has now resulted in a great deal of totally unnecessary upset. The Town Council will now have to be accountable for their actions, which will inevitably open up yet another can of worms. When will they ever learn? I agree with Acle Straight: It's time for a change up top (and perhaps in other places around the table too)

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  Tufty

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• Tufty - councils or any other representative body should feel empowered to do whatever they feel is best for the community that they represent. This is the very purpose of such bodies. If the community is to be consulted on everything then nothing will ever be achieved.

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  AE

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• In reply to Gerry Mitson, Holt's market days were for livestock (now there's an idea for Holt Town Council to think about). Let's not forget that the extremely generous offer of 50 car parking spaces from Gresham's School would have inevitably (just like last year) been presented again this year in connection with Holt's fantastic Summer Festival. The Town Council are not presenting anything new for Holt here, in fact they are actually cashing in on it by charging this time. The Town Council wished to remove 8 of the most frequently used, centrally located, car parking spaces in Holt and then clutter up the 50 spaces at Gresham's with stallholders vehicles every Friday. Little wonder the traders stood up for themselves and took the dictatorial Council to task. Good for them, and all done diplomatically and in good taste. Quite why the Mayor chose to back off so ungraciously claiming threats of abuse to his councillors and officers seems to have backfired. Perhaps its time for a change up top?

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  Acle Straight

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• I always thought Holt was a market town, i must be wrong.

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  gerry mitson

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• AE - and there's the root of the problem. Holt Town Council moved forward so quickly that they forgot just one thing ... to consult with the community that they were elected to represent.

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  Tufty

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• Tufty - thanks for the dates. I applaud the council moving forward quickly with this.

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  AE

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• Let's get a few facts out in the open. In the Vision presentations and documents, reference was made to the possibility of introducing a street market but at that stage it had not been regarded as a definite project. Although brief references to a market appeared in the 2 page article in the EDP on 23rd February it was not until 5th March that responsibility for implementing some of the suggestions, from the Vision, was handed over to Holt Town Council. The first indication that the Town Council was serious about a street market was made at the Council meeting on 12th March 2012:- "The town clerk advised that she was making PRELIMINARY enquiries into the setting up of a market in the town" (Extract from the minutes). Any person present at that meeting will have been made aware but the rest of the general public had to wait until publication of the Holt Chronicle on 27th April in which the Town Clerk stated, "We are looking into the possibility of running a Market in the town". This statement, made only 2 months ago, was the first positive indication of the Councils intentions.

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  Tufty

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• Sounds like short-sighted retailers to me. Successful high street trading is all about increasing footfall. Of course it's true that SOME of the market stalls will take SOME of the business from the shops. However, the increase in people in the town from the added attraction is by far going to outweigh this.

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  AE

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• This is why I don;t buy from local traders. I buy from French and German markets and holiday abroad..

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  Footyboy16

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• I am absolutely appalled that the Mayor of Holt can accuse the traders of Holt of being verbally abusive and threatening towards him and his office. He knows this to be totally untrue as everything in regards to the market has been conducted with respect and good humour.If the town council had chosen to consult with the independent businesses of Holt, perhaps there would not have been such a fuss in the first place.

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  no1grandma

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• Someone on Radio Norfolk said they attended a meeting where the market was discussed in January. Why did it take them until June to raise their issues? Weren't alarm bells ringing at the time?

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  omnishambles

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• 2 things here Who was verbally abused and threatened? and why is the Mayor allowing such behaviour to dictate council policy and procedure? Get a back bone man confront the bully not let them win! and if there is such a so called cuffufle about this why haven't the traders spoke out before and made themselves heard? Come on Holt it takes two to argue! or does every one like the snide back biteing and gets off on the power kicks it gives them?

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  Ron Luton-Brown

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• "only " for july and august that is the busiest time of year with the festival on that should not just be dismissed !

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  Double Bill

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• Double Bill the 50 parking space are only temporary for July and August. As for members of Holt Town Council being verbally abused and threaten that is not true. Does Bryan Payne think it is acceptable for a member of Holt Town Council calling a member of the public ignorant and illiterate? If so, it's about time Mr Payne read and understood the Code of Conduct for Town Councils.

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  lolafish

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• Common sense prevails at last. Now the Town Council needs to get a move on and sort out a car park. More good would come of that than a row of market stalls on Fish Hill.

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  BG

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• Out of curiousity what local products were being proposed? Crafts? Foodstuffs? Were they expecting local people to take the stalls or those who usually attend other markets? In my opinion the best markets are the really regular ones-where you know there will be a good vegetable or fish or haberdashery or china stall every week, not one which might have a few overpriced cheeses or pickles or bits of turned wood. I don't know about anyone else but I reckon the much touted French markets and their like are a joke and a rip off with their overpriced tat. A bit of hot mass produced bread, a few big olives and some expensive bikkies does not make a market.

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  Daisy Roots

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• Fierce, posh Holt swearing and threatening, who would have thought? What will they do when a large major supermarket chain eye's up some greenfield nearby and gets the go ahead? the mind boggles...

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  ingo wagenknecht

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• so we are stuck with eight car park spaces instead of the fifty that was promised with this market ? that wont do their trade much good either

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  Double Bill

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• Hopefully Paul Reed and all of the other traders who were against it will now join the Chamber of Trade & Commerce, who were involved from the start!

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  omnishambles

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012

• Change? No Holt doesn't do change. It's a scary thought.

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  Jonny Boggis

  Tuesday, June 26, 2012