An artists' impression of a planned Friday market at Fish Hill in Holt. PHOTO: Allies and Morrison Urban Practitioners

POLL: Holt traders’ fury over Friday market plan

By STEVE DOWNES Thursday, June 14, 2012
12:02 PM

Angry traders are demanding the scrapping of a summer-long Friday market that they claim will “devastate” shops in Holt.

Fish Hill in Holt, which could be the site of a summer Friday market. PHOTO: ANTONY KELLY

Shopkeepers on and around Bull Street and Fish Hill fear the combination of lost car parking spaces and added competition from market stall holders will heap pressure on them as they battle through the recession.

More than 350 petition signatures have been gathered in a last-ditch bid to head off the trial scheme, which will run at Fish Hill every Friday from July 6 until the end of August.

But, despite shop owners lobbying Monday’s Holt Town Council to make their views known, members decided to press on.

And council clerk Di Dann expressed surprised at the timing of the furore, saying that from last autumn the businesses could have put their views forward about the proposal, which is part of a £30,000 vision for Holt’s future.

The traders’ fears are focused on eight parking spaces on Fish Hill, which would be lost during each Friday market.

Paul Reed, from P and S Butchers on Bull Street, has started a petition, and said a survey last Friday had found that 83 different vehicles used the eight spaces in one day.

He said: “Holt is desperately in need of car parking spaces, so why take these away?”

He added: “Bringing in market stalls will mean even more competition for shops that are already struggling. The town council is not supporting us. They shot us down in flames at the meeting and said it’s going ahead regardless, which is insensitive.”

Penny Lukins, who owns Peccadillos Gifts and Interiors on Bull Street and Tumbleweed Gift Shop in Aylsham, said: “There’s been no proper consultation process with existing retailers.

“Trading has been extremely difficult. The town council should be supporting us, not putting additional competition into the town.”

Mrs Lukins added that traders would be less concerned if the market provided something that was not already available in Holt, like a “French market”.

But she said: “All this will do is replicate the products and spread a small customer base even more thinly. It could be devastating for existing trade.

“We don’t need a market in the town. It’s a totally senseless plan with disregard for the traders.”

David Makinson, from Holt Bookshop in Appleyard, said he had “total solidarity” with his fellow shopkeepers.

He said: “The stalls are going to be selling exactly the same produce that’s readily available in the town. You will have a butcher who will have a market butcher selling exactly the same things a few feet from his shop frontage.”

Mrs Dann said public question time had been extended on Monday to give traders a chance to have their say, but the council had opted to press on with the plan.

She stressed that it was a “trial”, and added: “Everybody is welcome to give their views. We have been consulting on the market as part of the vision plan since autumn.”

She said the idea of the market was to attract new people to that part of the town. And she said that the council was providing 50 temporary parking spaces at Gresham’s Pre-prep School car park during market times.

Holt Vision, which was funded by £25,000 from North Norfolk Community Partnership and £5,000 from the town council, is a 25-year masterplan.

Its most ambitious aspect is creating three new town squares in Market Place, Fish Hill and Shirehall Plain by pedestrianising areas.

● Do you support or oppose the Friday market? Visit www.northnorfolknews.co.uk to vote in our poll or write to the Letters Editor, North Norfolk News, 31, Church Street, Cromer, NR27 9ES.

56 comments

The Holt Chamber of Commerce continually misses wonderful opportunities to increase its membership through its failure to be a proactive organisation. Now JP advises that the Chamber of Commerce has been consulted and involved throughout the Holt Vision process, so why therefore was no consideration given to the effect that a market would have on the traders and shopkeepers in the vicinity of Fish Hill and Star Plain? Its failure to show any consideration towards those affected by the market and the implications when valuable, free, short-term car parking spaces are removed from the town centre on a Friday should have sent a shiver down the spine of any retailer serving on the committee, but of course they are few and far between.

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Tufty

Saturday, June 16, 2012
The argument that there was no consultation is misleading because the chamber of commerce and trade have been consulted and were involved with the meetings about it. The issue here is that a lot of shop keepers have not signed up the chamber of commerce and trade. This shows there is a bigger issue here that needs to be addressed.

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JP

Saturday, June 16, 2012
Where have my comments gone that were displayed on this site for 4 hours this morning? Local business person did say that posts were mysteriously edited.

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Acle Straight

Saturday, June 16, 2012
Been shopping in Holt today. Parked easily on Fish Hill as usual for an hour. My word, the Town Council's plans for their Friday market has certainly stirred up the traders. How remiss of the Council not to have consulted with all the business people in the first place. This would have avoided all the anger and upset that is so plain to see in town at the moment.

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Tufty

Saturday, June 16, 2012
Newsflash: Report from the Vision Strategy Committee Meeting held on 28th May (published in the Holt Chronicle Issue 252, page 17). Gresham's Car Park - "It was noted that £3.00 per vehicle for any length of stay would be charged". The advertisement on the same page requesting self-employed individuals to consider the role of becoming a car park steward also states, "There will be a charge of £3.00 per vehicle for parking on this site". Assuming that the report and advert was prepared and submitted for publication by the Clerk of Holt Town Council, there can be no question of it not being correct.

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Acle Straight

Saturday, June 16, 2012
@ Sage "I'm afraid that there is no such thing as free parking as Greshams will be charging £3 per day for the privilege" One has always had to pay for the privilege of going to Greshams, don`t you know.

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BG

Friday, June 15, 2012
Linda you say you are not concerned about competition but about the loss of 1 hour free car parking. Why bemoan the offering of fifty additional spaces offering 1 hour free car parking then?

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omnishambles

Friday, June 15, 2012
I have also had a post mysteriously edited before appearance when yesterday I queried the legality of Monday's council meeting. Just a warning to everyone else.

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local businessperson

Friday, June 15, 2012
I have also had a post mysteriously edited before appearance when yesterday I queried the legality of Monday's council meeting. Just a warning to everyone else.

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local businessperson

Friday, June 15, 2012
I have also had a post mysteriously edited before appearance when yesterday I queried the legality of Monday's council meeting. Just a warning to everyone else.

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local businessperson

Friday, June 15, 2012
Incidentally, the poll above is irrelevant since anyone can vote multiple times. Additionally, the system here will not accept some non alphanumeric characters: they just disappear when the post goes up.

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local businessperson

Friday, June 15, 2012
Norfolk County Council have not withdrawn the traffic control order. Every single shop and business on the site in question is opposed to this market; especially those who would have stalls placed across their entrances. Every single one (totalling about 10), and who can blame them? The pretty pictures do not show that the market is intended to go around the corner and be in front of at least five more shops galleries.

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local businessperson

Friday, June 15, 2012
SORRY BUT THE SO CALLED FREE PARKING IS ONLY FOR 1 HOUR AFTER THAT YOU HAVE TO PAY £3.00

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Linda Morris

Friday, June 15, 2012
AS A HOLT TRADER WE ARE NOT CONCERNED RE COMPETION OF THIS MARKET B U T THE LOSS OF CAR PARKING SACES THAT ALTHOUGH THEY ARE ONLY 1 HOUR IN DURATION THEY ARE USED BY OUR LOCAL REGULAR CUSTOMERS, DISABLED CUSTOMERS WHO WANT TO VISIT THE HAIRDRESSERS ETC.

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Linda Morris

Friday, June 15, 2012
If the trial is sucessful, Holt town council will want to force through the market year-round. Are Gresham Schools willing to provide free parking at all times of the year, including during term time? (Very Unlikely). Or will potential visitors to Holt be forced to abandon their trip to the town due to not being able to park? (Highly Likely).

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Ben

Friday, June 15, 2012
If the traders are so concerned that a market will cause such detriment, why not have the trial, be proved correct and then the Market idea can be put to bed for good?

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Callum Ringer

Friday, June 15, 2012
sage it says in the edp today it will be free parking on fridays .

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Double Bill

Friday, June 15, 2012
It would seem most appropriate that Norfolk County Council should withdraw the traffic order to enable the Town Council to undertake a full public survey. The desire to push this project through without appropriate consultation has now driven yet another wedge between the Town Council and traders of Holt.

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Acle Straight

Friday, June 15, 2012
I don't see what the big fuss is about considering it is only a summer trial. I say lets have the trial and see how it goes. If it is evident that trade is effected then it can all be fed back into a longer term decision. The point of a trial is to find out exactly these things.

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Callum Ringer

Friday, June 15, 2012
I don't see what the big fuss is about considering it is only a summer trial. I say lets have the trial and see how it goes. If it is evident that trade is effected then it can all be fed back into a longer term decision. The point of a trial is to find out exactly these things.

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Callum Ringer

Friday, June 15, 2012
I'm afraid that there is no such thing as free parking as Greshams will be charging £3 per day for the priviledge even though their car parks would otherwise be empty during the school summer holidays. In any case I now understand that the NCC have now stopped the traffic control orders to enable the parket to proceed until the Town Council have conducted a full public survey into the whole market project. That should put a stop to it!

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Sage

Friday, June 15, 2012
from a resident perspective free car parking on greshams during the market will be attractive.

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JP

Friday, June 15, 2012
Firstly, I sincerely hope that the results of this 'Poll' are not going to be used in any way as representation of public opinion. As previous readers have pointed out, any one person can vote any number of times. Secondly, I think it needs to be clarified that the parking spaces on Fish Hill are free and time restricted, hence the large number of vehicles making use of these spaces on any given day. There may be 50 parking spaces being made available at Gresham's prep school, but what is the charge going to be and what is the maximum length of time that each space could be occupied for? I think the most significant grievance felt by local traders is the inexcusable lack of appropriate, effective communication on the part of the Holt Vision Strategy Committee, Holt Town Council and the Holt Chamber of Trade. I would like to know why local businesses (and residents, of course) were not issued with a full copy of the Holt Vision final report, or at the very least a one page summary of its key points and directions as to how and where a full copy could be accessed. Furthermore, I cannot understand why businesses located in the immediate vicinity of the proposed market were not consulted in person in the first instance. I would like to know exactly what this market has to offer Holt and the local community? What is going to be sold that is not already on offer in local shops? …Shops run by local people who pay business rates and serve the local community and visitors to the town year-round. I would be interested to know exactly how the market traders were offered the opportunity to set up stall on this market. What was the application process? How were they required to 'pitch' their business as offering new produce, products or services to the local community? How much are they paying to the council for the privilege? Where was the 'planning notice' on Fish Hill?? Finally, who is the point of contact for the Holt Vision Strategy Committee? Where is their website? Why does the 'Holt Vision' page on Holt Town Council's website STILL say 'More Info Coming Soon' (http:www.holttowncouncil.orgHoltVisionProject.htm)

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Chloe

Thursday, June 14, 2012
You mean outside Butcher Andrews and Siddalls (who are against) and the clothes shop which used to be a travel agent, where there are 12 parking spaces? Take out 12 spaces instead of the 8 on Fish Hill? . . . Next thing, you'll be suggesting this market should be held on the parking and sole taxi spaces outside Larnersthe dentistart gallerytourist officeRailway pubbus stop. . . Or the straight pavement (with bus stop) the other side of the war memorial. That's on market place too. . . BTW this "poll" is pointless, since anyone can vote multiple times. Ho hum.

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local businessperson

Thursday, June 14, 2012
@ local businessperson - Know Holt only too well. There is a part of the Market Place where cars park end on to the kerb. Why not put the market there?

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BG

Thursday, June 14, 2012
BG's comment: "There is another clue to this issue. There is a road called Market Place which surely should be the place for a market - not at a venue called Fish Hill." shows that BG is unaware that Market Place is the main road in Holt. Or is BG suggesting that the entire town be closed to traffic for this council experiment?

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local businessperson

Thursday, June 14, 2012
@ Chris Booty - "Hold the front page! Well known market town may get market." There is another clue to this issue. There is a road called Market Place which surely should be the place for a market - not at a venue called Fish Hill.

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BG

Thursday, June 14, 2012
Having spent £5,000 of our money on the fatuous and patronising Holt "vision", presumably Holt Council feel obliged to go ahead with the street market despite vehement and near-universal objection from the town's retailers, other business owners and residents. It therefore follows that they will similarly go ahead with the ridiculous "vision" suggestions to change the traffic flow around the war memorial in order to create a completely unnecessary pedestrian area outside FeeneysSantander; and worse, to cut off the heavily-used road to and from the main town car park, outside Byfords. This will mean re-routing all the traffic into the car park around New Street, Cross Street and Albert Street thus exacerbating already existent traffic flow problems at the junction of New Street and High Street. What's to stop them? They take no notice of a 350-signature petition in town, and will take no notice of the poll on this website (which is in any case flawed). They took no notice of retailers' responses at the Council Meeting. http:www.cpalc.org.ukq-our-clerk-chairs-some-parish-council-meetings-is-this-ok

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local businessperson

Thursday, June 14, 2012
Holt is way over rated.could be more pleasant.

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bookworm

Thursday, June 14, 2012
Newsflash - observations on your supposedly well informed comments: What proof is there that markets in Fakenham, Sheringham and Cromer have never harmed these towns? The 8 parking spaces on Fish Hill are free and there will undoubtedly be a charge for the 50 spaces being provided by Gresham School. There will be additional losses to the removal of the 8 spaces on Fish Hill. Firstly, the market stall holders will occupy a number of Holt's limited car parking spaces for their own vehicles. Each will require an all-day parking space, so their static parked vehicles will deprive the town of innumerable changes that these spaces normally bring. Furthermore, to safely negotiate vehicles entering and exiting the Gresham School car park will demand a serious re-think to reduce a number of free car parking spaces along Church Street every Friday. Are funerals at St. Andrew's Church going to be banned on Fridays too? Now tell me where the town has gained (or how the traders of Holt can benefit) from this ridiculous proposal.

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Acle Straight

Thursday, June 14, 2012
Hold the front page! Well known market town may get market.

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Chris Booty

Thursday, June 14, 2012
Surely the traders would benefit from people coming into halt to visit the market.

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gerry mitson

Thursday, June 14, 2012
There isn't a loss of car parking. The town is gaining during these months.

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omnishambles

Thursday, June 14, 2012
The relationship, or lack of it, between the traders of Holt and the Chamber of Commerce should not represent the strength of the opposition towards the proposed market. The minimal number of attendants from the town's retailers during this so called consultation should have clearly reflected the need to consult in a different manner. However, this suited the council and those in favour of the market and vision so therefore nothing more was done. We suffer from a severe lack of parking as it is and the town's retailers still to this day are still fighting to survive the recession and to maintain the quality of shops Holt offers which is what draws tourists from all over the country and world. A market offering a series of products currently unavailable in the town would be a different matter, when the threat of losing car parking spaces and increasing competition at this present time is proposed then of course there will be an uproar. The opening line of the Holt Vision proposal was 'Holt is a great town'.. which is correct.. so let's keep it that way.

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Retailer

Thursday, June 14, 2012
The relationship, or lack of it, between the traders of Holt and the Chamber of Commerce should not represent the strength of the opposition towards the proposed market. The minimal number of attendants from the town's retailers during this so called consultation should have clearly reflected the need to consult in a different manner. However, this suited the council and those in favour of the market and vision so therefore nothing more was done. We suffer from a severe lack of parking as it is and the town's retailers still to this day are still fighting to survive the recession and to maintain the quality of shops Holt offers which is what draws tourists from all over the country and world. A market offering a series of products currently unavailable in the town would be a different matter, when the threat of losing car parking spaces and increasing competition at this present time is proposed then of course there will be an uproar. The opening line of the Holt Vision proposal was 'Holt is a great town'.. which is correct.. so let's keep it that way.

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Retailer

Thursday, June 14, 2012
The relationship, or lack of it, between the traders of Holt and the Chamber of Commerce should not represent the strength of the opposition towards the proposed market. The minimal number of attendants from the town's retailers during this so called consultation should have clearly reflected the need to consult in a different manner. However, this suited the council and those in favour of the market and vision so therefore nothing more was done. We suffer from a severe lack of parking as it is and the town's retailers still to this day are still fighting to survive the recession and to maintain the quality of shops Holt offers which is what draws tourists from all over the country and world. A market offering a series of products currently unavailable in the town would be a different matter, when the threat of losing car parking spaces and increasing competition at this present time is proposed then of course there will be an uproar. The opening line of the Holt Vision proposal was 'Holt is a great town'.. which is correct.. so let's keep it that way.

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Retailer

Thursday, June 14, 2012
If 83 vehicles used the 8 spaces in 1 day, just think how many cars could use the Gresham's parking? 500+ at the rate suggested! The only way most of the Towns traders would be bothered by the market is if it started selling things that normal people do not need.

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Jonny Boggis

Thursday, June 14, 2012
It is a two way street, isn't it. Could these quarrels have been averted if traders engaged in the activities of the chamber of commerce and trade?

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mal share

Thursday, June 14, 2012
Rarely go to Holt. Parking is a nightmare

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weaversway

Thursday, June 14, 2012
Mal Share - Just look at the Chamber of Trade's meeting on 2nd May. There were just 10 people attending the meeting ... and 6 of these are not connected in any way whatsoever with retail in Holt. A sorry situation that clearly speaks for itself. Perhaps its time for a traders association to be formed to represent the real feelings of the business community and a vote of no confidence in Holt Town Council to be called.

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Tufty

Thursday, June 14, 2012
It was also minuted in march.

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mal share

Thursday, June 14, 2012
It says a lot about the chamber of trade and commerce to be a part of this vision project and then to object at the last minute. The minutes of their may meeting show it was raised but no furore?

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mal share

Thursday, June 14, 2012
Holt MUST have improved car parking if any of the 'Holt Vision' projects are to go ahead. People want to visit Holt, but when they struggle to get parked before they even step foot in the town shows how silly the whole situation is. The Town Council, District Council and County Council must act urgently to rectify this situation. The Town Council in this case have appeared to have isolated themselves from traders and residents in Holt, so more fool them!

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Ben

Thursday, June 14, 2012
wasnt there this same uproar about sheringham having a market would they want it to close now ?

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Double Bill

Thursday, June 14, 2012
Holt Town Council is rather good at springing surprises and then claiming that full consultation has taken place!

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Tufty

Thursday, June 14, 2012
Acle Straight makes a very good point. However if Holt Town Council already holds the right to run a market on Fish Hill on a Friday and is simply proposing to reactivate it then maybe they would be entitled to do this without any other consents. I don't know how this would affect the car parking in that area but as market rights normally predate the invention of cars by many centuries they almost certainly have precedence. Having said all that I really don't see how a relatively small stall traders market in that area would add anything to Holt or its attractiveness to the general public. On the contrary the inconvenience, obstuction, and mess normally associated with such activities would probably deter people coming to the town, particularly when they find that they can't find anywhere to park!

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Sage

Thursday, June 14, 2012
Who isn't afraid of a bit of competition? might have to pull up their socks a bit and check their prices 'n a smile might work.

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Paul Platten

Thursday, June 14, 2012
What Holt really needs is a big multi-story in the town centre. On top of a ginormous Lidl.

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Jonathan

Thursday, June 14, 2012
@ Double Bill - The clue is in Georgian. People used to bring their animals and produce to the town to sale. We now have shops and supermarkets.

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BG

Thursday, June 14, 2012
I have more chance of parking in the 50 additional spaces as a result of the market than the 8 that would be lost.

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omnishambles

Thursday, June 14, 2012
A market is ok if the majority of stall holders do not sell the same type of goods being sold by shop keepers in the immediate vicinity of the market. In the current economic climate the council are being very insensitive to the needs of the shopkeepers who trade all year round, including the winter months when there is little custom. To take trade away from them during the summer months when trade is good just so they can indulge themselves in a "trial," which no one but they themselves want, deserve all they get at the next local elections.

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BG

Thursday, June 14, 2012
Can somebody please tell me why Holt Town Council can place a market into the town without planning permission? The removal of valuable car parking spaces in Holt could not be more inappropriate. I assume that if I wished to open a market on the public highway this would require planning permission by NNDC? But at least this official channel provides a structure for anyone to make their objections (or support) known and enables an application to receive proper debate.

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Acle Straight

Thursday, June 14, 2012
Markets never harmed Fakenham, Sheringham or Cromer.

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omnishambles

Thursday, June 14, 2012
Once again Holt Town Council have failed spectacularly to listen to its residents and traders. An issue as sensitive as this should have involved separate negotiation with the traders, particularly those where a conflict of trade will knowingly overlap. The Town Council's lack of any understanding to the daily struggles facing retailers at this present time beggars belief. This is just the first sign of a dreadfully flawed and totally unnecessary Vision Plan for Holt.

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Tufty

Thursday, June 14, 2012
I agree with the shop keepers. no car park spaces--this issue has been rumbling on for years and deters visitors to Holt.

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bookworm

Thursday, June 14, 2012
holt is a known as a "georgian market town " but traders say there is no reason to set up a market there ?

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Double Bill

Thursday, June 14, 2012

POLL: Holt traders’ fury over Friday market plan

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