Landau driver Fred England has been told that he is unable to renew is licence after the council discovered that he doesn't hold a driving licence. Picture: Nick Butcher

Great Yarmouth landau driver could be forced off the road

By Joe Wilkes Monday, October 1, 2012
3:14 PM

For a quarter of a century, Fred England has taken tourists for trips along Great Yarmouth’s historic seafront in his horse-drawn landau.

But now the 43-year-old is set to lose his licence to continue plying his trade – because the local council has suddenly realised it should not be authorising him to ride his four-wheel carriage because he does not have a licence to drive a car.

Mr England, whose horse is called Sam, went to Great Yarmouth Borough Council last week to submit a licence renewal application, as he has done regularly for 25 years, but was told he needed a motor vehicle driving licence, which he has never possessed.

The final decision over the licence renewal application will go to the council’s licensing committee later this week, but that will not help the horseman, who is likely to lose a part in the family trade – his grandfather, father and three brothers all pulled carriages – until he has a driving licence.

Mr England, of Vincent Close, Yarmouth, said: “They reckon I am not covered on the insurance.

“I have been doing it safely for 25 years; why all this all of a sudden now? In Blackpool there are eight guys who have Grandfather Rights; they can ride without a licence as their family have been doing it for so long. Where are my Grandfather Rights?

“I don’t really know why they are doing it; it’s strange.

“I am not happy about it at all. I enjoy doing this and it has been in my family for ages. As far as I am concerned they do not have the right. This rule should apply to new licences, not renewals.”

Since a Court of Appeal case in 1998 determined that a person-drawn vehicle was within the definition of a ‘Hackney Carriage’ – a black cab – it became law that both horse-drawn and person-drawn vehicles were licensable under the relevant Hackney Carriage legislation.

This means a landau rider must hold a Hackney Carriage driver’s licence and the prerequisite to that is that he holds a DVLA licence.

In Blackpool, a small number of experienced landau riders have been granted ‘Grandfather Rights’, under this, but this does apply to new applicants. Linda Mockford, the licensing manager at Great Yarmouth Borough Council, said: “It just recently came to light that it’s a matter of law, whereas before we did not require it.

“It was just a case of officers not being aware it was the law.

“It came to light because somebody else was trying to apply for a licence. We made it policy for brand new applications a few years ago.

“Now I know, I have to rectify it. We have checked and found that we were potentially in breach. We cannot do anything but refuse it; we are getting legal advice and I have advised him to do the same.

“If there was something I could do for him I would.

“In the past we have been acting incorrectly and now it is down to the committee, but I don’t think they can do anything.”

She added: “I will speak to him face to face; he deserves that after having been a landau driver for 25 years. This is no reflection on him.”

Mr England added: “As far as I am concerned this is their mistake, not mine.”

13 comments

spot on KATMAN what a stupid situation ,

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phillip mitchell

Tuesday, October 2, 2012
“In the past we have been acting incorrectly and now it is down to the committee, but I don’t think they can do anything.” There is something they can do. As Yarmouth has to save £10 million sack all those who have been "acting incorrectly" and save some money on incompetent jobsworths.

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"V"

Tuesday, October 2, 2012
Unfair or fair, insignificant really. if he continues he's likely to be pulled by the rozzers & prosecuted for it & there's bound to be people who'll grass on him anyway--the council giving him a 'break' means nothing in a magistrates court when he's being done for no insurance & no licence

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Cynic

Monday, October 1, 2012
I suggest the over zealous council checks for driving licences of the many foreign drivers that work in the foreign owned and run takeaway outlets in the town that the council has approved.....Hmmm do we think that this will happen?....

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wes1975

Monday, October 1, 2012
Doesn't say if he actually needs to pass a test. Could he get away with £20 for a provisional licence? I'm sure as a gesture of goodwill the council would knock the £20 off his Landau renewal licence fee?

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David Hardy

Monday, October 1, 2012
If he needs a driving licence to operate a horse drawn vehicle then he should be able to take his test in said vehicle. He should turn up at the test centre with a horse and landau.... along with TV crews and national press to highlight what a ludicrous state of affairs this is !!!

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Katman

Monday, October 1, 2012
absolutely ridiculous, who came up with such a ludicrous rule? a Hackey Carriage (aka taxi) has 4 wheels and an engine, no comparison whatsoever to 4 legs. I wonder if the people who supply horse drawn carriages for weddings or funerals also have to have a 'taxi' licence for the rider?

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catalonia13

Monday, October 1, 2012
and don't forget the council will also get the £200 the Hackney carriage licence will cost.---I thought all this red tape was meant to be cut, have the council really got nothing better to do?

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ggj666

Monday, October 1, 2012
shocking , fred is a great bloke , and only wants to work , will the gybc pay for fred to have a test as it seems over the last 25 years it hasnt checked he had one !! people should remember the council works for us and not us for them , good luck fred show the paper pushers up

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Jonathon Childs

Monday, October 1, 2012
They are denying him his right to work. How can he need a 'Hackney carriage' licence?? It is not 'Motorised' for christ sake. So they are going to force him on the the unemployed list are they??? It is safer to go by horse and carriage, than by motor vehicle, as the horse and carriage have right of way on a road. Do they need a licence in Europe's other capitals?? I bet they don't. Too daft t'laugh at.

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Peter Waby

Monday, October 1, 2012
They are denying him his right to work. How can he need a 'Hackney carriage' licence?? It is not 'Motorised' for christ sake. So they are going to force him on the the unemployed list are they??? It is safer to go by horse and carriage, than by motor vehicle, as the horse and carriage have right of way on a road. Do they need a licence in Europe's other capitals?? I bet they don't. Too daft t'laugh at.

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Peter Waby

Monday, October 1, 2012
They are denying him his right to work. How can he need a 'Hackney carriage' licence?? It is not 'Motorised' for christ sake. So they are going to force him on the the unemployed list are they??? It is safer to go by horse and carriage, than by motor vehicle, as the horse and carriage have right of way on a road. Do they need a licence in Europe's other capitals?? I bet they don't. Too daft t'laugh at.

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Peter Waby

Monday, October 1, 2012
This guy has been doing this job for 25 years and now they say he can't as he has no driving licence. He is more than likely to be safer on the road than most people in cars, and if he can get insurance then whats the problem. I can ride down the road on a bike with a trailer for my kids and i don't need a licence. I bet if he got a Chinese rickshaw he would not need one. At the end of the day if someone will insure him let him work.

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pa012d9924

Monday, October 1, 2012

Great Yarmouth landau driver could be forced off the road

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