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27/03/2009, 2:47 AM GreenBlue Joined on 01/06/2008 Posts 1,602 Re: Incinerators & infant mortality rates at electoral ward level MARKET FACTS Merchant prices: £ per tonne   Feb 2009 March 2009 Mixed papers -10 - 0 0 - 5 Old kls (cardboard) -5 - 5 0 - 10 Newspapers and magazines for de-inking 0 - 10 5 - 15 Mixed coloured office waste 5 - 20 10 - 25 White office paper 25 - 40 25 - 40 Inconvenient facts mad; If we take the worst performing recyclates; cardboard/mixed papers the prices in the paper recycling market are recovering into surplus prices at the recycle centres; all £40/T cheaper than landfill and £60/T cheaper than CHP incineration. So your anti recycling arguement is Daily mail slug agenda based rather than market price based. Its always good to use facts rather than unrepresentative headlines    Report

27/03/2009, 6:52 PM Hide the decline Joined on 12/03/2008 Posts 1,356 Re: Incinerators & infant mortality rates at electoral ward level GreenBlue wrote the following post at 27/03/2009 2:47 AM MARKET FACTS Merchant prices: £ per tonne   Feb 2009 March 2009 Mixed papers -10 - 0 0 - 5 Old kls (cardboard) -5 - 5 0 - 10 Newspapers and magazines for de-inking 0 - 10 5 - 15 Mixed coloured office waste 5 - 20 10 - 25 White office paper 25 - 40 25 - 40 Their just can't be a market ..............why would a recycling plant/firm go under, Only market for newspapers will be Indian sub-continent with in 10 years or less. Also the bleaching of old newspapers must do more harm to the environment , recycling paper seems so old hat along with all plastic odds and bobs. I concede to cardboard but even that might be better to compost. The recession will dictate what is worth recycling.    Report

27/03/2009, 8:09 PM GreenBlue Joined on 01/06/2008 Posts 1,602 Re: Incinerators & infant mortality rates at electoral ward level  ironsmad wrote: GreenBlue wrote the following post at 27/03/2009 2:47 AM MARKET FACTS Merchant prices: £ per tonne   Feb 2009 March 2009 Mixed papers -10 - 0 0 - 5 Old kls (cardboard) -5 - 5 0 - 10 Newspapers and magazines for de-inking 0 - 10 5 - 15 Mixed coloured office waste 5 - 20 10 - 25 White office paper 25 - 40 25 - 40 Their just can't be a market ..............why would a recycling plant/firm go under, Only market for newspapers will be Indian sub-continent with in 10 years or less. Also the bleaching of old newspapers must do more harm to the environment , recycling paper seems so old hat along with all plastic odds and bobs. I concede to cardboard but even that might be better to compost. The recession will dictate what is worth recycling. Mad do your market research and look a tad further. Greencycle is the Woolworths of the waste industry, most folk know this. Poor financing, poor management, dirty MRFs; good riddance. Most newspapers get recycled in the UK at either two plants; Aylesford newsprint in Kent, on the M20; or North Wales (Norfolk' NEWS newsprint contract.). In 18 months Palm Paper will be opening a massive state of the art facility at Saddlebow, Kings Lynn taking the East regions newsprint So anyone saying lack of market for newsprint in the UK, processed and recycled in the UK; is talking material, facility, economic and business rubbish. Bleaching reagents are caught in the facility, not released to the environment. The interesting thing about the recession is that most recyclate have a  market price  (but still +ve bulk market prices) etc; so one has to imagine prices one demand recovers or the economy begins to grow again in 2-3 years time. This is what Palm Paper are investing for, the medium to long term. The most damaging newsprint environmentally is Flexprint, used by the Daily Mail and the London Evening Standard. This cannot be recycled by itself and rots in landfill, goes up in smoke or can only be filtered in at 10% amounts without affecting newsprint quality. Otherwise, more trees need cutting down. The only real problem /less viable recyclate is mixed paper. This does not included quality paper or magerzines. Typically this is bus tickets, letters, envelopes, stuff under A4, shredded material        Report

27/03/2009, 9:04 PM Hide the decline Joined on 12/03/2008 Posts 1,356 Re: Incinerators & infant mortality rates at electoral ward level  GreenBlue wrote:  ironsmad wrote: GreenBlue wrote the following post at 27/03/2009 2:47 AM MARKET FACTS Merchant prices: £ per tonne   Feb 2009 March 2009 Mixed papers -10 - 0 0 - 5 Old kls (cardboard) -5 - 5 0 - 10 Newspapers and magazines for de-inking 0 - 10 5 - 15 Mixed coloured office waste 5 - 20 10 - 25 White office paper 25 - 40 25 - 40 Their just can't be a market ..............why would a recycling plant/firm go under, Only market for newspapers will be Indian sub-continent with in 10 years or less. Also the bleaching of old newspapers must do more harm to the environment , recycling paper seems so old hat along with all plastic odds and bobs. I concede to cardboard but even that might be better to compost. The recession will dictate what is worth recycling. Mad do your market research and look a tad further. Greencycle is the Woolworths of the waste industry, most folk know this. Poor financing, poor management, dirty MRFs; good riddance. Most newspapers get recycled in the UK at either two plants; Aylesford newsprint in Kent, on the M20; or North Wales (Norfolk' NEWS newsprint contract.). In 18 months Palm Paper will be opening a massive state of the art facility at Saddlebow, Kings Lynn taking the East regions newsprint So anyone saying lack of market for newsprint in the UK, processed and recycled in the UK; is talking material, facility, economic and business rubbish. Bleaching reagents are caught in the facility, not released to the environment. The interesting thing about the recession is that most recyclate have a  market price  (but still +ve bulk market prices) etc; so one has to imagine prices one demand recovers or the economy begins to grow again in 2-3 years time. This is what Palm Paper are investing for, the medium to long term. The most damaging newsprint environmentally is Flexprint, used by the Daily Mail and the London Evening Standard. This cannot be recycled by itself and rots in landfill, goes up in smoke or can only be filtered in at 10% amounts without affecting newsprint quality. Otherwise, more trees need cutting down. The only real problem /less viable recyclate is mixed paper. This does not included quality paper or magerzines. Typically this is bus tickets, letters, envelopes, stuff under A4, shredded material     Is the paper plant in Lynn being built by out sourced labour/firms or have the germans gone for Brit-firms and labour. The Germans might have missed the boat with the sale of newspapers going down the plughole. I save all our papers for local dogshome along with the Mail.   Littlejohn for a good laugh at everything. I hope he saw Pickles on the box last night, a prize plumb with our own clown!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    Report

28/03/2009, 5:18 AM GreenBlue Joined on 01/06/2008 Posts 1,602 Re: Incinerators & infant mortality rates at electoral ward level  ironsmad wrote:  GreenBlue wrote:  ironsmad wrote: GreenBlue wrote the following post at 27/03/2009 2:47 AM MARKET FACTS Merchant prices: £ per tonne   Feb 2009 March 2009 Mixed papers -10 - 0 0 - 5 Old kls (cardboard) -5 - 5 0 - 10 Newspapers and magazines for de-inking 0 - 10 5 - 15 Mixed coloured office waste 5 - 20 10 - 25 White office paper 25 - 40 25 - 40 Their just can't be a market ..............why would a recycling plant/firm go under, Only market for newspapers will be Indian sub-continent with in 10 years or less. Also the bleaching of old newspapers must do more harm to the environment , recycling paper seems so old hat along with all plastic odds and bobs. I concede to cardboard but even that might be better to compost. The recession will dictate what is worth recycling. Mad do your market research and look a tad further. Greencycle is the Woolworths of the waste industry, most folk know this. Poor financing, poor management, dirty MRFs; good riddance. Most newspapers get recycled in the UK at either two plants; Aylesford newsprint in Kent, on the M20; or North Wales (Norfolk' NEWS newsprint contract.). In 18 months Palm Paper will be opening a massive state of the art facility at Saddlebow, Kings Lynn taking the East regions newsprint So anyone saying lack of market for newsprint in the UK, processed and recycled in the UK; is talking material, facility, economic and business rubbish. Bleaching reagents are caught in the facility, not released to the environment. The interesting thing about the recession is that most recyclate have a  market price  (but still +ve bulk market prices) etc; so one has to imagine prices one demand recovers or the economy begins to grow again in 2-3 years time. This is what Palm Paper are investing for, the medium to long term. The most damaging newsprint environmentally is Flexprint, used by the Daily Mail and the London Evening Standard. This cannot be recycled by itself and rots in landfill, goes up in smoke or can only be filtered in at 10% amounts without affecting newsprint quality. Otherwise, more trees need cutting down. The only real problem /less viable recyclate is mixed paper. This does not included quality paper or magerzines. Typically this is bus tickets, letters, envelopes, stuff under A4, shredded material     Is the paper plant in Lynn being built by out sourced labour/firms or have the germans gone for Brit-firms and labour. The Germans might have missed the boat with the sale of newspapers going down the plughole. I save all our papers for local dogshome along with the Mail.   Littlejohn for a good laugh at everything. I hope he saw Pickles on the box last night, a prize plumb with our own clown!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Agreed; Littlejohn and Pickles are prize clowns and Wallies "Is the paper plant in Lynn being built by out sourced labour/firms or have the germans gone for Brit-firms and labour." Local labour mainly mad "The Germans might have missed the boat with the sale of newspapers going down the plughole." The figures down 2-3% I think mad "I save all our papers for local dogshome along with the Mail". So in terms of energy/resources mad you are going one better than Recycling; you are Reusing newspapers in a substitute role for good puch cause? So apart from avoiding buying newspapers, ie internet you are being a true Eco Warrior mad. There is always likely to be a significant newsprint market; whereever this settles after the recession. Many folks like reading books can't stop reading the tangable, its a comfort/habit thing Personally I'll avoid buying, other than the weekend/sunday paper, or I'll read the shared Telegraph/Times/Guardian in a Cafe, ; probably done in by a newspaper carrying super virus that spreads in the newsink and infects us all. Some say the Daily Mail is doing this already with nugget bin propaganda by putin or use of KGB.FSB sponsored Flexi jibber sabotaging UK Green collar jobs.                 Report

28/03/2009, 9:55 PM Hide the decline Joined on 12/03/2008 Posts 1,356 Re: Incinerators & infant mortality rates at electoral ward level Does the amount of migrants dictate where Norfolk's incinerator will be best placed.......Kings Lynn,......... to many white folk in the Norwich area, another conspiracy unfolds!!!!!!. Evening News 24 - Plans for second Norfolk waste plant given backing    Report

29/03/2009, 12:12 AM GreenBlue Joined on 01/06/2008 Posts 1,602 Re: Incinerators & infant mortality rates at electoral ward level  ironsmad wrote: Does the amount of migrants dictate where Norfolk's incinerator will be best placed.......Kings Lynn,......... to many white folk in the Norwich area, another conspiracy unfolds!!!!!!. Evening News 24 - Plans for second Norfolk waste plant given backing Nope, this shows how your conspiracy mind works mad, its a laugh. like NWO/MMGW Key factors for Contract B location are;  proximity principle to main urban MSW waste source, 150,000tpa proximity to gas/heat client (Centrica/Palm Paper), Proximity to major trunk road access/intersections, B1/B2 land.  If it were migrants wacky conspiracy, it would be located at Thetford The PFI reference theoretical model was an incinerator to catch the  £91m govt funds; but procurement is technology neutral which could be plasma gasification, gasification, pyrolysis, autoclaving, gasplasma, mbt/ad, anaerobic digestion, mbt to rdf fuel; mbt to compost, or incineration with chp==or combinations of different technologies ==so anything is possible Contract A was going to be an incinerator at Longwater but press/campaign/landowners changed councils mind to choose SRM's MBT/AD technology    Report

29/03/2009, 12:58 PM GreenBlue Joined on 01/06/2008 Posts 1,602 Re: Incinerators & infant mortality rates at electoral ward level Another Incinerator fails/bites the dust.; People Power with common sense who want better alternative technologies to do the same job. No Nimbys. http://www.letsrecycle.com/do/ecco.py/view_item?listid=37&listcatid=217&listitemid=31298 EfW/CHP/Incinerators. Overproven, outdated, expensive, poluting, less deliverable and increasingly less bankable.    Report

29/03/2009, 9:16 PM Hide the decline Joined on 12/03/2008 Posts 1,356 Re: Incinerators & infant mortality rates at electoral ward level A lengthy appeal , keeps lawyers in megga bucks..........nulabour capitalist pocket fillers via the EU directive gets the nod = a smokin turd.    Report

30/03/2009, 12:26 AM GreenBlue Joined on 01/06/2008 Posts 1,602 Re: Incinerators & infant mortality rates at electoral ward level  ironsmad wrote: A lengthy appeal , keeps lawyers in megga bucks..........nulabour capitalist pocket fillers via the EU directive gets the nod = a smokin turd. Smoking turds are slug fly tippers, gum/butt droppers on the streets and those who don't recycle/throw "away" mindlessly; and expect a guilt edge service to clean up after them. If these turds stopped their BS, took responsibility, the need for EU directives and clean up technology would be less.    Report

05/04/2009, 6:13 PM GreenBlue Joined on 01/06/2008 Posts 1,602 Re: Incinerators & infant mortality rates at electoral ward level Yep.. Michael Ryan was 100% correct in the 1st post; plasma gasification is the CHP technology residual waste direction forward.  Peter Jones /London's Waste Czar confirms this with W2T London market entry. 8 min clip says it all from US Science and Technology; with US EPA approval http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwnRjScQWsY Incineration is on its technological death bed.    Report

05/04/2009, 7:35 PM Hide the decline Joined on 12/03/2008 Posts 1,356 Re: Incinerators & infant mortality rates at electoral ward level Incineration is on its technological death bed. I agree bluebottle, but its the banksters and in yer face mobsters who as a rule do not give a fig about public health. Profit before people is there way. Bring on the plasma gasification and down with the new world order scum. I still like to have my bin emptied once a week in the summer.    Report

06/04/2009, 1:50 AM GreenBlue Joined on 01/06/2008 Posts 1,602 Re: Incinerators & infant mortality rates at electoral ward level  ironsmad wrote: Incineration is on its technological death bed. I agree bluebottle, but its the banksters and in yer face mobsters who as a rule do not give a fig about public health. Profit before people is there way. Bring on the plasma gasification and down with the new world order scum. I still like to have my bin emptied once a week in the summer. Most cost effective weekly service is a weekly food waste collection via caddies to anaerobic digesters with power/district heating. This makes both feedstock plasma gasifiers highest for calorifics and output power; and allows for easy high value recycleables to be recovered. It has to be a simple layered CHP approach of treating wet organics, dry residual fuel and profitable dry recyclate. San Francisco has this middle pragmatic way and it works/ is cost effective. Going for all mixed rubbish treatment (landfill/incineration) or full material multi bin separation (zero waste/comprehensive recycling) the other way just doesn't work either way.    Report

06/04/2009, 10:39 AM GreenBlue Joined on 01/06/2008 Posts 1,602 Re: Incinerators & infant mortality rates at electoral ward level  GreenBlue wrote:  ironsmad wrote: Incineration is on its technological death bed. I agree bluebottle, but its the banksters and in yer face mobsters who as a rule do not give a fig about public health. Profit before people is there way. Bring on the plasma gasification and down with the new world order scum. I still like to have my bin emptied once a week in the summer. Most cost effective weekly service is a weekly food waste collection via caddies to anaerobic digesters with power/district heating. This makes both feedstock plasma gasifiers highest for calorifics and output power; and allows for easy high value recycleables to be recovered. It has to be a simple layered CHP approach of treating wet organics, dry residual fuel and profitable dry recyclate. San Francisco has this middle pragmatic way and it works/ is cost effective. Going for all mixed rubbish treatment (landfill/incineration) or full material multi bin separation (zero waste/comprehensive recycling) the other way just doesn't work either way. Well it  looks like its going that way although my belief its up to each council what bin system is the most  effective.  Forcing never works well. Weekly Kitchen caddies are a good idea and will gain grassroot support without the EU getting its nose involved. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/5110507/Households-could-be-forced-to-collect-food-waste-in-separate-bins-under-EU-plans.html Many interests are using it as a political football. If weekly food waste initiate came from UKIP ,Daily Mail or Conservative the likes of Dorretta Cock Up would be backing it. I think its that basic. Personally I'm in favour of weekly food waste division and collection because it makes sense, not because the EU have revisited the Biowaste bandwagon. Its the sort of efficient system the Victorians would have brought in like the food collection to piggeries or ash collection to fertilise farmland or reuse in industrial processes.    Report

06/04/2009, 10:01 PM Hide the decline Joined on 12/03/2008 Posts 1,356 Re: Incinerators & infant mortality rates at electoral ward level  GreenBlue wrote:  GreenBlue wrote:  ironsmad wrote: Incineration is on its technological death bed. I agree bluebottle, but its the banksters and in yer face mobsters who as a rule do not give a fig about public health. Profit before people is there way. Bring on the plasma gasification and down with the new world order scum. I still like to have my bin emptied once a week in the summer. Most cost effective weekly service is a weekly food waste collection via caddies to anaerobic digesters with power/district heating. This makes both feedstock plasma gasifiers highest for calorifics and output power; and allows for easy high value recycleables to be recovered. It has to be a simple layered CHP approach of treating wet organics, dry residual fuel and profitable dry recyclate. San Francisco has this middle pragmatic way and it works/ is cost effective. Going for all mixed rubbish treatment (landfill/incineration) or full material multi bin separation (zero waste/comprehensive recycling) the other way just doesn't work either way. Well it  looks like its going that way although my belief its up to each council what bin system is the most  effective.  Forcing never works well. Weekly Kitchen caddies are a good idea and will gain grassroot support without the EU getting its nose involved. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/5110507/Households-could-be-forced-to-collect-food-waste-in-separate-bins-under-EU-plans.html Many interests are using it as a political football. If weekly food waste initiate came from UKIP ,Daily Mail or Conservative the likes of Dorretta Cock Up would be backing it. I think its that basic. Personally I'm in favour of weekly food waste division and collection because it makes sense, not because the EU have revisited the Biowaste bandwagon. Its the sort of efficient system the Victorians would have brought in like the food collection to piggeries or ash collection to fertilise farmland or reuse in industrial processes. Another bin to find space for.................madness roll on the great flood ,won't belong when rats the size\of cats appear on front/back lawns waiting for a their daily feast. Time to get some chickens maybe to eat what ever leftovers.    Report

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