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   03/04/2006, 2:02 PM
JeremyJones is not online. Last active: 27/09/2006 16:34:08 JeremyJones

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Travel [ap] Can anyone tell me what this is in the skies over Norwich? Droid jets?

Hi!

I saw what appeared to be a plane leaving multiple vapour trails in the skies over Norwich, the other day (31st March 06), so I took a photo of it.

As far as I can tell, the jet, which _is_ clearly visible, is producing two main vapour trails, and there are five extra trails, three on one side of the plane, and two on the other. I did see a picture in a magazine of a plane with droid jets, though at low level (I think).

If it was an aerodynamic effect, I'd expect there to be an equal number of trails on either side. Also, the trails seem to begin too far from the jet to have been created by it.

Is this a photo of a jet accompanied by five small droid jets flying over Norwich?

Also, I have seen a Eurofighter Typhoon fly over Norwich, and think I _heard_ some again, circling low over Norwich the other night - quite a distinctive jet noise, I think.

Am wondering whether all this activity is the precursor to something worrying.

Jeremy Jones.

By the way, the address of my site, is http://www.jeremyjones.0catch.com with a digit 'zero' in the middle, not a letter 'O' (for Oranges) in the middle. - The preview of the posting seems unclear, though it's possible the link does work. JJ.

 


Jeremy Jones
http://www.jeremyjones.0catch.com
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   04/04/2006, 9:48 AM
tsutton is not online. Last active: 11/04/2006 14:08:31 tsutton

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Re: Can anyone tell me what this is in the skies over Norwich? Droid jets?

Very interesting... however I think it's an eye trick or something.

I'm interested to know what it is too...


- Tony Sutton
- http://www.fordst170.co.uk
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   05/04/2006, 10:04 AM
njw is not online. Last active: 12/10/2006 09:15:00 njw

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Re: Can anyone tell me what this is in the skies over Norwich? Droid jets?
This has also appeared on one of the aviation websites and the concensus is that its a refuelling tanker accompanied by some of its 'customers', which seems reasonable when you consider that they are based at Mildenhall.

see http://www.ukar.co.uk/cgi-bin/ukarboard/ikonboard.cgi?s=1c7324f2540e3cfdfa1d763cd6a5244c;act=ST;f=1;t=13534


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   05/04/2006, 11:29 AM
Paulos is not online. Last active: 05/04/2006 10:22:30 Paulos

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Re: Can anyone tell me what this is in the skies over Norwich? Droid jets?

Nothing to worry about, it's just a tanker aircraft refuelling a handful of F-16s. No 'droid' jets or anything sinister. Also it isn't unusual for Typhoons to be flying above Norfolk as they are based at Coningsby in Lincolnshire.

Look at http://www.ukar.co.uk/cgi-bin/ukarboard/ikonboard.cgi?s=66744ac292ac53a3c9e655178c0f7481;act=ST;f=1;t=13534 for more accurate info.


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   05/04/2006, 4:57 PM
JeremyJones is not online. Last active: 27/09/2006 16:34:08 JeremyJones

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Re: Can anyone tell me what this is in the skies over Norwich? Droid jets?

I might have thought so, myself, if the first plane looked larger. As it is, it doesn't look large enough to be a tanker of any description. It looks more like a fighter. However, will try Norwich's 2nd Air Memorial Division library for silhouettes to see.

And I assure you it's an honest photo, taken from the window of my flat. Can email original (1.3Mb goes to 2.3Mb via Yahoo), if they want to look to zoom in for themselves. Just pass me email address.

JJ.


Jeremy Jones
http://www.jeremyjones.0catch.com
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   06/04/2006, 5:35 PM
cat7 is not online. Last active: 06/04/2006 16:30:37 cat7

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Re: Can anyone tell me what this is in the skies over Norwich? Droid jets?

 JeremyJones wrote:
I might have thought so, myself, if the first plane looked larger. As it is, it doesn't look large enough to be a tanker of any description. It looks more like a fighter. However, will try Norwich's 2nd Air Memorial Division library for silhouettes to see.

This is a big plane but its flying very high (from Father Ted 'these ones smalll, those one faaar awayyy :-) ). Several people on UKAR have not only identified it as a tanker but as one from the Dutch airforce which was known to be en-route to the USA on March 31st which was when you saw it. One person has gone as far as to say :- 

 UKAR wrote:
This was NAF41 with NAF81. Dutch KDC-10 and 6 F-16's. They flew over Coltishall on the 31st March 2006.

Theres a bit more about refuelling at http://www.freewebs.com/101arw/trainingcenter.htm and if I've got this right there is a photo of the actual plane at http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00216826

Its not as exciting as a droid plane (whatever that is) but it is almost certainly true :-)


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   07/04/2006, 2:46 PM
JeremyJones is not online. Last active: 27/09/2006 16:34:08 JeremyJones

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Re: Can anyone tell me what this is in the skies over Norwich? Droid jets?

If it was not for the fact that there was actually debate on the UKAR web site, about what the planes might be, suggesting that the plane may have been a TriStar, and there were not a large amount of offensive language, including gratuitous homophobic remarks, and the like, I might accept a view from someone reporting from that community.

As it is, I see no particular reason for the aircraft buff community to be quite so derisive in its remarks to those outside of it, and no good reason to accept its assertions.

My personal feeling is that if the members of that community showed the respect that I typically see members of the UK's armed forces showing to the public, including RAF, when, for example, out recruiting, instead of making offensive childish jibes, there'd be a lot less need for the armed forces to go and deal with situations in other countries caused by that kind of person.

I am grateful for positive input. I have, now, had a chance to try to enhance the original photo to try to establish the shape of the jet. It is possible, from what I have seen, that it has a section that is more the tubular shape associated with larger jets than the angular shape of fighters. But I don't think I could say that for sure. Myself, I don't feel qualified to rule out the possibility that the photo only shows two contrails and not three, from the only plane visible, though three does seem possible. However, my initial impression, when I took the photo was of a fighter, and until I had fiddled with the photo a lot, it still resembled one to me, and indeed still does, after some fiddles. Additionally, the craft was moving very fast - faster than I would have associated a tanker craft with - particularly if it were actually attempting to refuel customers at the time.

I remain mystified by the total invisibility of the actual customers. According to March's guide to aircraft, a KC-10 is 55.35m long ('big' is such a disappointingly crude word from an 'expert'). Fighters are about 15m long (assuming you can identify which ones they are) - ie: about 1/3 to 1/4 of the length of a tanker. You'd hope to be able to see something of that size, there, in that image. As it is, whatever I have tried to do to the image, I have, at best, only managed to bring out one small highlighted patch that might represent another plane, and that was some way forward of where I'd expect to see it, unless fighter contrails 'go white' after a longer period than those of tankers. I am, therefore, still very curious to know what might present so small an image, and how. Clearly, whatever they are, they are on the same course, and would be presenting the same surface(s) to the camera, and it seems reasonable to expect that similar reflectivity would cause similarly bright images.

It is quite possible that one or other of the posters on UKAR is correct (and one might hope likely), though there is nothing there to indicate which that might be. I am a former journalist. There were some rather negative remarks about the Evening News and the behaviour of journalists, on the UKAR site. Myself, if I had been reporting on this, I would certainly not go to press based upon the rather strident remarks of Joe Nobody who refuses to identify themself other than by a rather childish, macho 'handle'. What the Evening News has done is give airspace to one of the people on its bulletin board. It is not saying 'This is what this is'. It is making it possible for them to ask the public, on its site 'What is this?'. Which seems a very reasonable thing to do.

I imagine, from the large number of views, compared to the number of replies, that a lot of other people are puzzled by the image, including a friend of mine whose views and opinions I certainly do respect.

As for seeing this kind of thing over Norwich, it is rather unusual, as is the amount of jet activity. It may be that, now that there are Eurofighter Typhoons at Coningsby, we may well see more of them. My personal feeling is that I would expect the RAF to avoid flying low over heaviliy populated areas unless it wished to communicate to the public that it was there, for some reason. When I contacted the RAF to find out where the Typhoon may have come from, I was told there were 'over 20' stationed at Coningsby. This, again, is a remarkably vague piece of accounting, for machines of such lethality and cost. If the customers were fighters returning to America, then that suits me fine.

If anyone can offer more definitive advice (perhaps offer evidence to support one view over another), I'll be happy to read it. Ignorance is excusable. Stupidity is not. A person can always learn, and many actually have to. Don't go jumping down the throats of people who are merely 'ignorant'!

Jeremy Jones. http://www.jeremyjones.0catch.com


Jeremy Jones
http://www.jeremyjones.0catch.com
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   07/04/2006, 4:52 PM
Paulos is not online. Last active: 05/04/2006 10:22:30 Paulos

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Re: Can anyone tell me what this is in the skies over Norwich? Droid jets?

Apologies if any UKAR members have offended you but we see some extremely poor, misguided and sensationalist journalism when it comes to aviation matters and we don't suffer fools gladly. We often see the result of journalists who don't bother to check even the most basic facts which gives the reading public the wrong impression.

If more than one person suggests it is a KDC-10 with a host of F-16s then you can be pretty sure that is what it is, in fact there are people who can tell you the serials of the aircraft involved and probably their history!


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   07/04/2006, 10:16 PM
Jarvis is not online. Last active: 15/06/2006 14:54:27 Jarvis

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Re: Can anyone tell me what this is in the skies over Norwich? Droid jets?
I reckon it's some kind of super hero.
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   10/04/2006, 4:12 PM
JeremyJones is not online. Last active: 27/09/2006 16:34:08 JeremyJones

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Norwich
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Re: Can anyone tell me what this is in the skies over Norwich? Droid jets?

Smile [:)]

..............................................

Jarvis wrote the following post at 07/04/2006 10:16 PM:

"I reckon it's some kind of super hero. "

...............................................

Yeah. You're probably right. The Incredibles.

If enough Evening News readers agree, then that's what it is.

Some of them can even name each character and what they do in each scene.

Smile [:)]

JJ.


Jeremy Jones
http://www.jeremyjones.0catch.com
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   02/09/2007, 5:22 PM
PeterTomasPan is not online. Last active: 02/09/2007 16:08:57 PeterTomasPan

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Re: Can anyone tell me what this is in the skies over Norwich? Droid jets?
As it looks as though you captured your photograph (of aircraft & vapor trails) from inside your flat I wounder if you took the photograph through a double-glazed unit. This may or may-not have produced the effect but should be eliminated (by experimentation maybe) before any solid conclusion can be inferred.Travel <img src=" src="/cs/emoticons/emotion-58.gif">
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